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"real" VFR-AIP for Germany?


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Renzo
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Tim Dawson - 4/26/2017 2:05:32 PM
There is no such thing as a "complete" German AIP. There is the IFR AIP, and the VFR AIP.

I still do not understand why you are actually asking about this: what EXACTLY are you missing in the VFR AIP that is essential for your flying?‌‌

Hi Tim again,

so‌rry for putting this "explicid german" subject on you. I paid a very close look into the AIP provided in SD and my "DFS printed" AIP VFR version. There are differences in numbering the parts and so on. But anyhow: the closer look to both AIP said: nearly everything is to find in SD´s AIP Germany. so, no problem at all.

My point was to get (and see in SD) an identical digital copy of my "paper-AIP" but it seems that Eisenschmidt does not provide a product like this. e.g. in the paper AIP you can find a chart, where all airspaces in GER are shown and described with their specifications. A chart like this (really just an example, I know the airspaces in GER ;-) ) wasn´t to find yet in the SD-AIP Germany.

‌‌Anyhow, to complete this thread for now: I like it very much to work with SD because of its functionality, the access to all the AIPs for the downloaded countries and so on. I did several testflights with X-Plane to be prepared for the real world and I´m conviced. Ok, when I don´t wait for the autozoom and geo-referenced charts ;-) ;-)

Fine Job you do there, I like it, even if we do not agree in every part we discussed already‌‌.

Kind regards,
Renzo‌‌

 

drnicolas
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Tim Dawson - 4/24/2017 9:35:03 AM
I will ask Eisenschmidt if there is a good reason why we only sell the charts (mainly) and not the textual part.

I suspect that the legal documents that are the main German AIP (which we do supply, for free) are all you need when used in combination with the VAC from the VFR AIP.


Maybe I am wrong: But I remember, I have seen the textual part.
This weekend I was missing itt, because‌ we needed phone numbers of an airfield and the opening hours   it was EDFR.

Neither phone numbers nor opening hours are available ( not under Admin information, nor under the VFR-AIP). This is very disappointing!

Tim Dawson
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drnicolas, you are the architect of your own disappointment.

Airfields -> All Documents -> DFS German VFR AIP -> You'll see the "List of Aerodromes"‌‌ document which is where DFS publish all opening hours and phone numbers etc.
dirk64
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Sorry for open the topic again, but I completely agree with Renzo - it would be really nice to get rid of the paper version of the DFS German VFR AIP.
‌The above mentioned "List of Areodromes" is an important part of the VFR AIP. Together with Approach and Aerodrome Charts you provide us the complete "AD" section of the VFR AIP. The paper version also includes the "General", "Enroute" part and Supplements etc.
Maybe Eisenschmitt will offers you the complete VFR AIP for a higher price - I will be the first purchasing it!

T‌hanks Dirk‌
Tim Dawson
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Can you explain what it is exactly that you need? Not just "general and enroute sections" but the actual information you feel is necessary.
Gerhard66
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Hi Tim,

your question cannot be answered.
If the official VFR AIP paper version has a section "General", but SD does not, what other question would you expect from Dirk besides "what's written in section General?".

If you can confirm, that the provided "German AIP" in SD together with the purchased "DFS German VFR AIP" in SD provides comprehensive information for a VFR flight in Germany, we are happy! No further questions :-)

But if you couldn't confirm this, we would have a serious problem. Without the printed version, how could we find out if there exist other important regulations besides those mentioned in SD?

Kind regards
Gerhard








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dirk64
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Hi Tim,
following this link to Eisenschmidt may help to explain what we are meaning:
https://www.eisenschmidt.aero/charts-manuals/manuals/vfr/785/aip-vfr-basic-document
This paperwork AIP VFR contains a SUP, GEN, ENR and AD part.
The AD part is exactly what we get with our "DFS German AIP VFR" subscription.
The rest is missing and it is not the same as the "normal" IFR AIP.
Eisenschmidt also offers an electronic version called "Visual Flight Guide" but having everthing together in SD would be fantastic!

Best regards
Dirk


Tim Dawson
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But there is no legal requirement to have copies of that information, either on the ground or in flight. So I am trying to find out what information, exactly, it is that you think you need. Obviously, Eisenschmidt do not think you need that information as they sell the AD-only package which many resellers, including us, pass on to German pilots.

Or is this just a general worry that you might‌‌ need to be carrying more papers?
Gerhard66
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Of course, no pilot is obliged to own the AIP or even have it in the cockpit available! That's nonsense! ;-)

But it is absolutely necessary to know the rules! And the rules are officially published in the AIP VFR.
Dirk seems to have discovered a discrepancy between the printed, official AIP VFR and the data provided by SD.
This makes doubting if the SD provided information is comprehensive. That's all.

Dirk, I guess you own the printed version.
Could you please provide just one single tangible example of important information that you can find in the printed AIP VFR but you are missing in SD.

I for myself assume, SD is comprehensive.
The SD provided AIP is called "AIP GERMANY", but the printed version seems to be called "AIP IFR".




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Renzo
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Gerhard66 - 8/2/2017 7:15:28 PM
Of course, no pilot is obliged to own the AIP or even have it in the cockpit available! That's nonsense! ;-)But it is absolutely necessary to know the rules! And the rules are officially published in the AIP VFR. Dirk seems to have discovered a discrepancy between the printed, official AIP VFR and the data provided by SD.This makes doubting if the SD provided information is comprehensive. That's all. Dirk, I guess you own the printed version. Could you please provide just one single tangible example of important information that you can find in the printed AIP VFR but you are missing in SD. I for myself assume, SD is comprehensive. The SD provided AIP is called "AIP GERMANY", but the printed version seems to be called "AIP IFR".


I my opinion Dirk wants the same thing I mentioned a few month before in this thread which was started by myself. I (and maybe Dirk as well?? :-) would like to have all the VFR-information which is provided by the printed VFR-AIP (Jeppesen, DFS) completely within SD to get rid of any printed VFR-version.

The "free-AIP-section" (Germany) that is included in SD seems to provide IFR-informations and contains all the section like "Enroute", "General"....  I discovered a "publishing-offset" of 14 days between the printed VFR AIP (DFS) and the freely provided IFR-AIP. The offset is generated by the publishers (DFS?), not by SD.

Independently of when or where we need the information contained by the printed DFS-VFR-AIP: it would be fine to have the complete printed VFR-version (including General, Enroute...) within SD. Did I meet the point, Dirk and Gerhard?

Kind regards,
R‌enzo

‌‌

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