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SkyDemon for IPAD


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GGHKX
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Thank you.
TimT
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Weather updates yes, all things that need Internet access.

Tracking: Not sure what you mean? Do you mean using the iPhone as GPS source for SD running on the non-cellular iPad? Then no. You still need to connect an external GPS to your iPad. Either via Bluetooth (like a Garmin GLO), or use the GPS from your traffic receiver (e.g., PilotAware) or AHRS, via WiFi.

Remember, you only have 1 avail WiFi connection, so you might want to use Bluetooth to create that Personal Hotspot (“tethering”) on your iPhone. So that you keep the WiFi port available for the traffic receiver, AHRS, or other peripherals that connect via WiFi.


grahamb
grahamb
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Sky Painter - 5/15/2021 4:00:42 PM
GGHKX - 5/15/2021 3:49:07 PM
Hi

Sorry for jumping on this thread.

I already have the latest iPad (wifi only) so don’t fancy buying a new one - I’ve only just decided to get back into flying after a couple of year hiatus.

If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?

I’m comfortable using my iPhone 12 Max if it comes to it, but if I can use my iPad, even better.

Cheers

If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?


Yes

Tethering your iPad to your phone will give you internet connectivity outside of wifi range, but will not provide a GNSS location for navigation ‘Go Flying’ mode.

To do that with a non-cellular/GNSS iPad requires you to buy an external GNSS unit and link to it via Bluetooth or Wifi depending on the one you buy. Even better would be to buy a box such as PilotAware, Stratux or SkyEcho2, as these will provide both GNSS a position and traffic data, but that’s a whole separate discussion. Assuming your Forum user name is your aircraft registration, it seems that you are UK based. You are aware that the UK DfT are offering a subsidy of 50% up to a max of £250 for equipping with an electronic conspicuity device, whether fitted or carry-on? This could well halve the cost of getting a GNSS position box for your iPad, and give you the benefit of traffic information as well.

GGHKX
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Hi

Thank you both for replying.

Does the wifi only iPad have any form of built in GPS even if not as reliable, or is it just not going to work?

Thank you for the suggestions - I’ll look into them now!

I wasn’t aware of the subsidy, so thank you for mentioning. Is there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from.

Thanks once again.
TimT
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No, it hasn’t any. The GPS receiver sits on the cellular radio circuit board (for a lack of a better name). If your iPad has no cellular, it also has no GPS.
GGHKX
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Thank you. The reason I ask is because when I tried it earlier at home tethered to my iPhone sky demon picked up the location so I was unsure why if this was the case. Thanks.
grahamb
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GGHKX - 5/16/2021 8:06:14 AM
Is there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from. Thanks once again.

It's a minefield trying to recommend which traffic sensing box to buy; religious wars worse than that of Android v Apple are regularly fought on forums over that subject.

In my opinion, the first priority must be to make youself conspicuous as possible, which really means squitting ADSB-out. If you have a transponder already squitting ADSB, then you can then focus on a traffic receiver. If you don't, then the cheapest option is a SkyEcho2 which will:
- Squit ADSB-out, thereby making you as conspicious as possible to the greatest number of people, to a standard which is international and the CAA's preferred option,
- Receive ADSB-in signals and allow them to be presented as traffic on SkyDemon,
- With the purchase of an additional subscription through SkyDemon, receive FLARM signals (predominantly gliders) and display those on SD also,
- provide a GNSS position to SD with good integrity level.

If you already emit ADSB-out, then you could still buy a SkyEcho and use it in receive mode only. It's advantages are that it is small and light, comes as a single box with no external antennae, and an integral internal rechargeable battery (although it can be powered from a USB socket) It's disadvantages are that its performance depends very much on positioning within the aircraft; it needs a good view of the sky for GNSS reception, whilst also needing good forward and side visibility for traffic sensing. It comes with a sucker mount, but depending on your aircraft may need some experimentation, possibly with supplementary mounts, to maximise its performance. Further information here.

Alternatively, you could consider a PilotAware. This Raspberry Pi based box will not emit ADSB-out, but does transmit its own protocol, and therefore can only be detected directly by other PilotAware users. However, that protocol is also used to receive information on other traffic broadcast by PilotAware's own network of ground stations (ATOM-GRID). Advantages are that it is cheaper, can be more flexible in location within the aircraft as both the antennae and the GNSS module can be mounted away from the box and connected via cables to it, it will allow you to display the greatest number of different types of traffic, and can support connection of external antennae but its disadvantages are that the packaging is larger, a bit more fragile, and needs a supplementary power source i.e. a battery pack, USB connection or hard-wiring. It will detect directly:
- ADSB
- Mode S and Mode C (only as a 'bearingless target' i.e. it can warn you but can't tell you where the target is) but see below.
- Other PilotAware devices
It will also receive transmisisons from an in-range ATOM-GRID station and allow targets to be displayed positionally for:
- FLARM
- Mode S and Mode C
It will of course also supply a GNSS position to SkyDemon. More information here.


rmilkowski
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GGHKX - 5/15/2021 3:49:07 PM
Hi

Sorry for jumping on this thread.

I already have the latest iPad (wifi only) so don’t fancy buying a new one - I’ve only just decided to get back into flying after a couple of year hiatus.

If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?

I’m comfortable using my iPhone 12 Max if it comes to it, but if I can use my iPad, even better.

Cheers

Get some external device like Rosetta 2 or SkyEcho which will give you both GPS and also some traffic info. Given you mount their antenna in a better place you should get better coverage than with a built-in gps.

Then use iPhone as a backup device.


Robertvandortmond
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grahamb - 5/16/2021 5:39:36 PM
GGHKX - 5/16/2021 8:06:14 AM
Is there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from. Thanks once again.

It's a minefield trying to recommend which traffic sensing box to buy; religious wars worse than that of Android v Apple are regularly fought on forums over that subject.

In my opinion, the first priority must be to make youself conspicuous as possible, which really means squitting ADSB-out. If you have a transponder already squitting ADSB, then you can then focus on a traffic receiver. If you don't, then the cheapest option is a SkyEcho2 which will:
- Squit ADSB-out, thereby making you as conspicious as possible to the greatest number of people, to a standard which is international and the CAA's preferred option,
- Receive ADSB-in signals and allow them to be presented as traffic on SkyDemon,
- With the purchase of an additional subscription through SkyDemon, receive FLARM signals (predominantly gliders) and display those on SD also,
- provide a GNSS position to SD with good integrity level.

If you already emit ADSB-out, then you could still buy a SkyEcho and use it in receive mode only. It's advantages are that it is small and light, comes as a single box with no external antennae, and an integral internal rechargeable battery (although it can be powered from a USB socket) It's disadvantages are that its performance depends very much on positioning within the aircraft; it needs a good view of the sky for GNSS reception, whilst also needing good forward and side visibility for traffic sensing. It comes with a sucker mount, but depending on your aircraft may need some experimentation, possibly with supplementary mounts, to maximise its performance. Further information here.

Alternatively, you could consider a PilotAware. This Raspberry Pi based box will not emit ADSB-out, but does transmit its own protocol, and therefore can only be detected directly by other PilotAware users. However, that protocol is also used to receive information on other traffic broadcast by PilotAware's own network of ground stations (ATOM-GRID). Advantages are that it is cheaper, can be more flexible in location within the aircraft as both the antennae and the GNSS module can be mounted away from the box and connected via cables to it, it will allow you to display the greatest number of different types of traffic, and can support connection of external antennae but its disadvantages are that the packaging is larger, a bit more fragile, and needs a supplementary power source i.e. a battery pack, USB connection or hard-wiring. It will detect directly:
- ADSB
- Mode S and Mode C (only as a 'bearingless target' i.e. it can warn you but can't tell you where the target is) but see below.
- Other PilotAware devices
It will also receive transmisisons from an in-range ATOM-GRID station and allow targets to be displayed positionally for:
- FLARM
- Mode S and Mode C
It will of course also supply a GNSS position to SkyDemon. More information here.




Robertvandortmond
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Dear Grahamb,

You seem to be very knowledgable on this subject! Maybe you can help me:

- As a glider pilot I use a Lxnav S80 variometer.
-With a bluetooth dongle from Naviter, the vario sends a lot of data to miPad for the glider navigation software SeeYou Navigator
- I want to use SkyDemon, but my iPad is wifi only.

Do you think SkyDemon will pick up the gps signal (all I want ), or do I still have buy a separate bluetooth gps receiver?

Thank you!

Robert


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