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UA1775
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Hi All,
My first post in these forums, I want know what kind of iPad I’ll need for skydemon to work? The one with cellular and WiFi or just cellular? Also when flying will I need internet access to my iPad when using skydemon?
During my PPL training I was taught to use chart and dead reckoning navigation, but now since I’ve passed my skills test I am looking to invest into sky demon for my navigation and situational awareness backed up by CAA 1:500:000 VFR chart.
Thanks for your input.
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Tony N
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+xHi All, My first post in these forums, I want know what kind of iPad I’ll need for skydemon to work? The one with cellular and WiFi or just cellular? Also when flying will I need internet access to my iPad when using skydemon? During my PPL training I was taught to use chart and dead reckoning navigation, but now since I’ve passed my skills test I am looking to invest into sky demon for my navigation and situational awareness backed up by CAA 1:500:000 VFR chart. Thanks for your input. Hi UA1775, I suggest you go for the option that provides both cellular and WIFI capabilities. You don't actually need either to get SD working for pure navigation purposes but a cellular capability will allow you to receive weather data and NOTAM updates while flying (or on the ground before departure). A WIFI capability will allow you to connect to a Electronic Conspicuity (EC) device of your choice, which I am sure you will want to have. Tony
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pilot-byom
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+xHi All, My first post in these forums, I want know what kind of iPad I’ll need for skydemon to work? The one with cellular and WiFi or just cellular? Also when flying will I need internet access to my iPad when using skydemon? During my PPL training I was taught to use chart and dead reckoning navigation, but now since I’ve passed my skills test I am looking to invest into sky demon for my navigation and situational awareness backed up by CAA 1:500:000 VFR chart. Thanks for your input. My advice, definitely get an iPad with Cellular and load it with a data SIM card!
There is nothing more important than redundancy and risk management being either a pilot or even maturing to airmen. By company decision Apple decided to use a GPS which is physically sharing housing with the Cellular equipment = only the Cellular versions have GPS functionality built in, or other way around - a WiFi-only iPad relies on some kind of connectivity to an external device to get the position. If your power goes off in an emergency, you want the option to use the iPad standalone including tracking.
I second too, you also want the ability to pull weather data, NOTAM updates, other documents when on the road. There is huge benefit to be able to pull the latest news or a webcam picture right before departure and the mobile net connected iPad is a much better way than using a smartphone.
One word of warning, even if we are in a Skydemon dedicated forum her, get yourself acquainted with special features, drawbacks and limitations of several navigation software option before you decide which one to use. Yes, Skydemon is probably the most affordable solution, but choose only after being aware of its limitations. Get a list of your requirements first and talk to a lot of people around you about what kind of flying you want to do. In many cases Skydemon is the right choice, but choose on knowledge and awareness in the decision.
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FLYBARRY
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I am in the Colonies - The USA.
My questions are: 1 - How much data space is required for SkyDeamond (SD)? I ask this as I am currently using an iPad Air and running ForeFlight (FF). Yes, I do understand space is defined by how many charts/areas you want to download currently I have FF and 17 states.
2 - Charts - Are the charts Certified to b used by the FAA for fight? Example - FF is totally acceptable to be used in place of paper charts. Matter of fact, here in the Colonies, it is very difficult to find an FBO that sells paper charts.
3 - WX - How is WX obtained? I do have ADSB Out via the Xponder (Stratus ESG Out) and I SOMETIMES receive WX via a Raspberry Pi (RPi) running STRTUX which transmits to the iPad. BUT! WX has been unreliable - Either because I have been flying on Severe Clear days or ???
4 - WX - Keeping on the WX topic. How is WX received when On The Ground? My RPi and STRATUX is only receiving when airborne and when above 2500 Ft.
5 - Additional Equipment - Other than an iPad and SD, what additional equipment is required?
6 - SD - With FF I am running ONLY the BASIC subscription and it does very well for me. What are the different levels of SD and what do they offer? Yes, I will research the SD website. Just looking for a Heads Up!
OK, that is all I can think of at this time. Thank you for your assistance and input.
Barry
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pilot-byom
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+xI am in the Colonies - The USA. ... OK, that is all I can think of at this time. Thank you for your assistance and input.
Barry
Hi Barry, sorry for not answering your questions and maybe not being of much help! Only and just a short remark, I do use Skydemon for flying VFR in Europe, but ... in the US it is ForeFlight for me, Skydemon is very (too) Europe-centric, but others may have a different opinion.
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grahamb
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+x+xI am in the Colonies - The USA. ... OK, that is all I can think of at this time. Thank you for your assistance and input.
Barry
Hi Barry, sorry for not answering your questions and maybe not being of much help! Only and just a short remark, I do use Skydemon for flying VFR in Europe, but ... in the US it is ForeFlight for me, Skydemon is very (too) Europe-centric, but others may have a different opinion. I (partially, as I don’t think it is too Europe-centric) agree. The target market for SD is Europe, and many of the features that make it the VFR category killer over here just won't work in the US.
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FLYBARRY
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+x+xI am in the Colonies - The USA. ... OK, that is all I can think of at this time. Thank you for your assistance and input.
Barry
Hi Barry, sorry for not answering your questions and maybe not being of much help! Only and just a short remark, I do use Skydemon for flying VFR in Europe, but ... in the US it is ForeFlight for me, Skydemon is very (too) Europe-centric, but others may have a different opinion. THANK YOU for the response. WOW that was quick ;-) OK, I believe you supplied me with the Bottom Line Answer... Stick with ForeFlight. I sure like the idea of weather information, and the simulated radar. Maybe in the future ForeFlight will have competition from SkyDeamon.
Thanks BYOM... BTW... I support BYOG or as you say BYOMoney
Barry
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TimT
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I have had full licenses for SkyDemon and for Foreflight. I am neither in Europe nor the U.S., so on neither package’s home turf. For me, SD wins hands down.
Foreflight is very much geared towards the fix wing guy flying as per flight plan, and with auto pilot. When everything is quiet up there and you have plenty of time, you can fiddle with the many minuscule bottoms of the Foreflight user interface
For hands-on, low level VFR flying SD is much more useable, and gives you much better situational awareness. Case in point is that Foreflight doesn’t even tell you FRQ *below* the TMA; it automatically assumes that you are *in* the TMA.
Also, Foreflight is overladen with features that mostly look good on paper. Like the quarter screen synthetic vision. If you rely on synthetic vision, it better be a fixture permanently installed in front of you, not something that goes away when you look up a runway direction, etc. As much as it is elegantly implemented in Foreflight, in real life it is just a gimmick.
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GGHKX
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Hi
Sorry for jumping on this thread.
I already have the latest iPad (wifi only) so don’t fancy buying a new one - I’ve only just decided to get back into flying after a couple of year hiatus.
If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?
I’m comfortable using my iPhone 12 Max if it comes to it, but if I can use my iPad, even better.
Cheers
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Sky Painter
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+xHi Sorry for jumping on this thread. I already have the latest iPad (wifi only) so don’t fancy buying a new one - I’ve only just decided to get back into flying after a couple of year hiatus. If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?I’m comfortable using my iPhone 12 Max if it comes to it, but if I can use my iPad, even better. Cheers If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?
Yes
Mike _________________________________________ Samsung Galaxy Tab A8 – Android 11.0 & SD 4.1.2 Huawei P30 – Android 11.0 & SD 4.1.2
PC – Windows 10 (Home Ed) Version 22H2, Build 19045.6332, SD 4.1.2
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GGHKX
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TimT
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Weather updates yes, all things that need Internet access.
Tracking: Not sure what you mean? Do you mean using the iPhone as GPS source for SD running on the non-cellular iPad? Then no. You still need to connect an external GPS to your iPad. Either via Bluetooth (like a Garmin GLO), or use the GPS from your traffic receiver (e.g., PilotAware) or AHRS, via WiFi.
Remember, you only have 1 avail WiFi connection, so you might want to use Bluetooth to create that Personal Hotspot (“tethering”) on your iPhone. So that you keep the WiFi port available for the traffic receiver, AHRS, or other peripherals that connect via WiFi.
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grahamb
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+x+xHi Sorry for jumping on this thread. I already have the latest iPad (wifi only) so don’t fancy buying a new one - I’ve only just decided to get back into flying after a couple of year hiatus. If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?I’m comfortable using my iPhone 12 Max if it comes to it, but if I can use my iPad, even better. Cheers If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc?
Yes Tethering your iPad to your phone will give you internet connectivity outside of wifi range, but will not provide a GNSS location for navigation ‘Go Flying’ mode.
To do that with a non-cellular/GNSS iPad requires you to buy an external GNSS unit and link to it via Bluetooth or Wifi depending on the one you buy. Even better would be to buy a box such as PilotAware, Stratux or SkyEcho2, as these will provide both GNSS a position and traffic data, but that’s a whole separate discussion. Assuming your Forum user name is your aircraft registration, it seems that you are UK based. You are aware that the UK DfT are offering a subsidy of 50% up to a max of £250 for equipping with an electronic conspicuity device, whether fitted or carry-on? This could well halve the cost of getting a GNSS position box for your iPad, and give you the benefit of traffic information as well.
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GGHKX
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Hi
Thank you both for replying.
Does the wifi only iPad have any form of built in GPS even if not as reliable, or is it just not going to work?
Thank you for the suggestions - I’ll look into them now!
I wasn’t aware of the subsidy, so thank you for mentioning. Is there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from.
Thanks once again.
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TimT
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No, it hasn’t any. The GPS receiver sits on the cellular radio circuit board (for a lack of a better name). If your iPad has no cellular, it also has no GPS.
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GGHKX
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Thank you. The reason I ask is because when I tried it earlier at home tethered to my iPhone sky demon picked up the location so I was unsure why if this was the case. Thanks.
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grahamb
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+xIs there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from. Thanks once again. It's a minefield trying to recommend which traffic sensing box to buy; religious wars worse than that of Android v Apple are regularly fought on forums over that subject.
In my opinion, the first priority must be to make youself conspicuous as possible, which really means squitting ADSB-out. If you have a transponder already squitting ADSB, then you can then focus on a traffic receiver. If you don't, then the cheapest option is a SkyEcho2 which will: - Squit ADSB-out, thereby making you as conspicious as possible to the greatest number of people, to a standard which is international and the CAA's preferred option, - Receive ADSB-in signals and allow them to be presented as traffic on SkyDemon, - With the purchase of an additional subscription through SkyDemon, receive FLARM signals (predominantly gliders) and display those on SD also, - provide a GNSS position to SD with good integrity level.
If you already emit ADSB-out, then you could still buy a SkyEcho and use it in receive mode only. It's advantages are that it is small and light, comes as a single box with no external antennae, and an integral internal rechargeable battery (although it can be powered from a USB socket) It's disadvantages are that its performance depends very much on positioning within the aircraft; it needs a good view of the sky for GNSS reception, whilst also needing good forward and side visibility for traffic sensing. It comes with a sucker mount, but depending on your aircraft may need some experimentation, possibly with supplementary mounts, to maximise its performance. Further information here.
Alternatively, you could consider a PilotAware. This Raspberry Pi based box will not emit ADSB-out, but does transmit its own protocol, and therefore can only be detected directly by other PilotAware users. However, that protocol is also used to receive information on other traffic broadcast by PilotAware's own network of ground stations (ATOM-GRID). Advantages are that it is cheaper, can be more flexible in location within the aircraft as both the antennae and the GNSS module can be mounted away from the box and connected via cables to it, it will allow you to display the greatest number of different types of traffic, and can support connection of external antennae but its disadvantages are that the packaging is larger, a bit more fragile, and needs a supplementary power source i.e. a battery pack, USB connection or hard-wiring. It will detect directly: - ADSB - Mode S and Mode C (only as a 'bearingless target' i.e. it can warn you but can't tell you where the target is) but see below. - Other PilotAware devices It will also receive transmisisons from an in-range ATOM-GRID station and allow targets to be displayed positionally for: - FLARM - Mode S and Mode C It will of course also supply a GNSS position to SkyDemon. More information here.
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Robertvandortmond
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+x+xIs there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from. Thanks once again. It's a minefield trying to recommend which traffic sensing box to buy; religious wars worse than that of Android v Apple are regularly fought on forums over that subject.
In my opinion, the first priority must be to make youself conspicuous as possible, which really means squitting ADSB-out. If you have a transponder already squitting ADSB, then you can then focus on a traffic receiver. If you don't, then the cheapest option is a SkyEcho2 which will: - Squit ADSB-out, thereby making you as conspicious as possible to the greatest number of people, to a standard which is international and the CAA's preferred option, - Receive ADSB-in signals and allow them to be presented as traffic on SkyDemon, - With the purchase of an additional subscription through SkyDemon, receive FLARM signals (predominantly gliders) and display those on SD also, - provide a GNSS position to SD with good integrity level.
If you already emit ADSB-out, then you could still buy a SkyEcho and use it in receive mode only. It's advantages are that it is small and light, comes as a single box with no external antennae, and an integral internal rechargeable battery (although it can be powered from a USB socket) It's disadvantages are that its performance depends very much on positioning within the aircraft; it needs a good view of the sky for GNSS reception, whilst also needing good forward and side visibility for traffic sensing. It comes with a sucker mount, but depending on your aircraft may need some experimentation, possibly with supplementary mounts, to maximise its performance. Further information here.
Alternatively, you could consider a PilotAware. This Raspberry Pi based box will not emit ADSB-out, but does transmit its own protocol, and therefore can only be detected directly by other PilotAware users. However, that protocol is also used to receive information on other traffic broadcast by PilotAware's own network of ground stations (ATOM-GRID). Advantages are that it is cheaper, can be more flexible in location within the aircraft as both the antennae and the GNSS module can be mounted away from the box and connected via cables to it, it will allow you to display the greatest number of different types of traffic, and can support connection of external antennae but its disadvantages are that the packaging is larger, a bit more fragile, and needs a supplementary power source i.e. a battery pack, USB connection or hard-wiring. It will detect directly: - ADSB - Mode S and Mode C (only as a 'bearingless target' i.e. it can warn you but can't tell you where the target is) but see below. - Other PilotAware devices It will also receive transmisisons from an in-range ATOM-GRID station and allow targets to be displayed positionally for: - FLARM - Mode S and Mode C It will of course also supply a GNSS position to SkyDemon. More information here.
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Robertvandortmond
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Dear Grahamb,
You seem to be very knowledgable on this subject! Maybe you can help me:
- As a glider pilot I use a Lxnav S80 variometer.
-With a bluetooth dongle from Naviter, the vario sends a lot of data to miPad for the glider navigation software SeeYou Navigator
- I want to use SkyDemon, but my iPad is wifi only.
Do you think SkyDemon will pick up the gps signal (all I want ), or do I still have buy a separate bluetooth gps receiver?
Thank you!
Robert
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grahamb
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+xDear Grahamb,You seem to be very knowledgable on this subject! Maybe you can help me:- As a glider pilot I use a Lxnav S80 variometer. -With a bluetooth dongle from Naviter, the vario sends a lot of data to miPad for the glider navigation software SeeYou Navigator- I want to use SkyDemon, but my iPad is wifi only.Do you think SkyDemon will pick up the gps signal (all I want ), or do I still have buy a separate bluetooth gps receiver?Thank you!Robert Have you tried it?
Normally when you pair a bluetooth GNSS type device to an iPad, the iPad will adopt the Bluetooth received location data whether or not the IiPad itself has an inbuilt GPS.
If you can pair the dongle to your iPad. just press 'Go Flying' after first making sure you haven't got any third party devices selected in the Setup menu.
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Robertvandortmond
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Ok, thanks! I get my plane in May…
Robert
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rmilkowski
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+xHi Sorry for jumping on this thread. I already have the latest iPad (wifi only) so don’t fancy buying a new one - I’ve only just decided to get back into flying after a couple of year hiatus. If I were to tether my iPhone to my iPad, would this get me to the same end result of weather updates, tracking etc? I’m comfortable using my iPhone 12 Max if it comes to it, but if I can use my iPad, even better. Cheers Get some external device like Rosetta 2 or SkyEcho which will give you both GPS and also some traffic info. Given you mount their antenna in a better place you should get better coverage than with a built-in gps.
Then use iPhone as a backup device.
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frankhopkins
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Is the iPad mini still considered the most practical for Skydemon - or is that advice very old??
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BJS
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+xIs the iPad mini still considered the most practical for Skydemon - or is that advice very old?? It all depends on your preferences. Apple iPad is still the recommendation, as it just works. What size is all up to you and you have to try. I started 10 inch, went Mini, found that fine for the medium flight hours skills, moved to the big Pro once I collected more flight hours. SOPs change and your needs change, so be prepared to change iPad size as well - just my opinion.
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Andrew
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+xIs the iPad mini still considered the most practical for Skydemon - or is that advice very old?? In my view it's more about how you plan to physically use the iPad - will it be on a kneeboard (mini is probably better) or will you have it on a RAM mount that may/may not obscure other instruments on your panel. I bought an iPad Air (10.9") and it's too large for a kneeboard, so am working on a RAM mounting - need to have it secure whichever way you use it given the number of accidents caused by devices jamming control sticks/rudder pedals in critical phases of flight
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fingertrouble
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Weather updates, of course. But can you really get your GPS Position out of an iPhone - iPad connection.
I prefer the the cellular version just because it has a GPS built in, the Wifi only version must be used with some external (e.g, BT) GPS receiver. In our club all planes now have an air-avionics AT-1 traffic receiver which makes it‘s own Wifi. If you connect the iPad to this Wifi, you get your own position and SD (and othe apps) shows traffic around.
I also think that in the US SD is not as good as FF. In Europe you can easily access all freely available charts, in the US I didn‘t see any FAA charts available.
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