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SkyDemon for IPAD


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UA1775
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Hi All,

My first post in these forums, I want know what kind of iPad I’ll need for skydemon to work? The one with cellular and WiFi or just cellular? Also when flying will I need internet access to my iPad when using skydemon?

During my PPL training I was taught to use chart and dead reckoning navigation, but now since I’ve passed my skills test I am looking to invest into sky demon for my navigation and situational awareness backed up by CAA 1:500:000 VFR chart.

Thanks for your input.




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GGHKX
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Hi

Thank you both for replying.

Does the wifi only iPad have any form of built in GPS even if not as reliable, or is it just not going to work?

Thank you for the suggestions - I’ll look into them now!

I wasn’t aware of the subsidy, so thank you for mentioning. Is there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from.

Thanks once again.
TimT
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No, it hasn’t any. The GPS receiver sits on the cellular radio circuit board (for a lack of a better name). If your iPad has no cellular, it also has no GPS.
GGHKX
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Thank you. The reason I ask is because when I tried it earlier at home tethered to my iPhone sky demon picked up the location so I was unsure why if this was the case. Thanks.
grahamb
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GGHKX - 5/16/2021 8:06:14 AM
Is there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from. Thanks once again.

It's a minefield trying to recommend which traffic sensing box to buy; religious wars worse than that of Android v Apple are regularly fought on forums over that subject.

In my opinion, the first priority must be to make youself conspicuous as possible, which really means squitting ADSB-out. If you have a transponder already squitting ADSB, then you can then focus on a traffic receiver. If you don't, then the cheapest option is a SkyEcho2 which will:
- Squit ADSB-out, thereby making you as conspicious as possible to the greatest number of people, to a standard which is international and the CAA's preferred option,
- Receive ADSB-in signals and allow them to be presented as traffic on SkyDemon,
- With the purchase of an additional subscription through SkyDemon, receive FLARM signals (predominantly gliders) and display those on SD also,
- provide a GNSS position to SD with good integrity level.

If you already emit ADSB-out, then you could still buy a SkyEcho and use it in receive mode only. It's advantages are that it is small and light, comes as a single box with no external antennae, and an integral internal rechargeable battery (although it can be powered from a USB socket) It's disadvantages are that its performance depends very much on positioning within the aircraft; it needs a good view of the sky for GNSS reception, whilst also needing good forward and side visibility for traffic sensing. It comes with a sucker mount, but depending on your aircraft may need some experimentation, possibly with supplementary mounts, to maximise its performance. Further information here.

Alternatively, you could consider a PilotAware. This Raspberry Pi based box will not emit ADSB-out, but does transmit its own protocol, and therefore can only be detected directly by other PilotAware users. However, that protocol is also used to receive information on other traffic broadcast by PilotAware's own network of ground stations (ATOM-GRID). Advantages are that it is cheaper, can be more flexible in location within the aircraft as both the antennae and the GNSS module can be mounted away from the box and connected via cables to it, it will allow you to display the greatest number of different types of traffic, and can support connection of external antennae but its disadvantages are that the packaging is larger, a bit more fragile, and needs a supplementary power source i.e. a battery pack, USB connection or hard-wiring. It will detect directly:
- ADSB
- Mode S and Mode C (only as a 'bearingless target' i.e. it can warn you but can't tell you where the target is) but see below.
- Other PilotAware devices
It will also receive transmisisons from an in-range ATOM-GRID station and allow targets to be displayed positionally for:
- FLARM
- Mode S and Mode C
It will of course also supply a GNSS position to SkyDemon. More information here.


Robertvandortmond
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grahamb - 5/16/2021 5:39:36 PM
GGHKX - 5/16/2021 8:06:14 AM
Is there a particular one that you would recommend? I live just down the round from FlightStore so that’d be the most convenient location to by supplies from. Thanks once again.

It's a minefield trying to recommend which traffic sensing box to buy; religious wars worse than that of Android v Apple are regularly fought on forums over that subject.

In my opinion, the first priority must be to make youself conspicuous as possible, which really means squitting ADSB-out. If you have a transponder already squitting ADSB, then you can then focus on a traffic receiver. If you don't, then the cheapest option is a SkyEcho2 which will:
- Squit ADSB-out, thereby making you as conspicious as possible to the greatest number of people, to a standard which is international and the CAA's preferred option,
- Receive ADSB-in signals and allow them to be presented as traffic on SkyDemon,
- With the purchase of an additional subscription through SkyDemon, receive FLARM signals (predominantly gliders) and display those on SD also,
- provide a GNSS position to SD with good integrity level.

If you already emit ADSB-out, then you could still buy a SkyEcho and use it in receive mode only. It's advantages are that it is small and light, comes as a single box with no external antennae, and an integral internal rechargeable battery (although it can be powered from a USB socket) It's disadvantages are that its performance depends very much on positioning within the aircraft; it needs a good view of the sky for GNSS reception, whilst also needing good forward and side visibility for traffic sensing. It comes with a sucker mount, but depending on your aircraft may need some experimentation, possibly with supplementary mounts, to maximise its performance. Further information here.

Alternatively, you could consider a PilotAware. This Raspberry Pi based box will not emit ADSB-out, but does transmit its own protocol, and therefore can only be detected directly by other PilotAware users. However, that protocol is also used to receive information on other traffic broadcast by PilotAware's own network of ground stations (ATOM-GRID). Advantages are that it is cheaper, can be more flexible in location within the aircraft as both the antennae and the GNSS module can be mounted away from the box and connected via cables to it, it will allow you to display the greatest number of different types of traffic, and can support connection of external antennae but its disadvantages are that the packaging is larger, a bit more fragile, and needs a supplementary power source i.e. a battery pack, USB connection or hard-wiring. It will detect directly:
- ADSB
- Mode S and Mode C (only as a 'bearingless target' i.e. it can warn you but can't tell you where the target is) but see below.
- Other PilotAware devices
It will also receive transmisisons from an in-range ATOM-GRID station and allow targets to be displayed positionally for:
- FLARM
- Mode S and Mode C
It will of course also supply a GNSS position to SkyDemon. More information here.




Robertvandortmond
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Dear Grahamb,

You seem to be very knowledgable on this subject! Maybe you can help me:

- As a glider pilot I use a Lxnav S80 variometer.
-With a bluetooth dongle from Naviter, the vario sends a lot of data to miPad for the glider navigation software SeeYou Navigator
- I want to use SkyDemon, but my iPad is wifi only.

Do you think SkyDemon will pick up the gps signal (all I want ), or do I still have buy a separate bluetooth gps receiver?

Thank you!

Robert


grahamb
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Robertvandortmond - 3/22/2022 11:50:43 AM
Dear Grahamb,You seem to be very knowledgable on this subject! Maybe you can help me:- As a glider pilot I use a Lxnav S80 variometer. -With a bluetooth dongle from Naviter, the vario sends a lot of data to miPad for the glider navigation software SeeYou Navigator- I want to use SkyDemon, but my iPad is wifi only.Do you think SkyDemon will pick up the gps signal (all I want ), or do I still have buy a separate bluetooth gps receiver?Thank you!Robert

Have you tried it?

Normally when you pair a bluetooth GNSS type device to an iPad, the iPad will adopt the Bluetooth received location data whether or not the IiPad itself has an inbuilt GPS. 

If you can pair the dongle to your iPad. just press 'Go Flying' after first making sure you haven't got any third party devices selected in the Setup menu.

Robertvandortmond
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Ok, thanks! I get my plane in May…
Robert
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UA1775 - 3/31/2021 1:04:47 PM
tnowak - 4/1/2021 8:17:11 AM
pilot-byom - 4/1/2021 9:16:31 AM
FLYBARRY - 4/1/2021 1:48:23 PM
pilot-byom - 4/1/2021 2:23:15 PM
grahamb - 4/1/2021 4:23:00 PM
FLYBARRY - 4/1/2021 7:34:39 PM
TimT - 5/12/2021 8:00:33 PM
GGHKX - 5/15/2021 3:49:07 PM
             Yes
Sky Painter - 5/15/2021 4:00:42 PM
                 Thank you.
GGHKX - 5/15/2021 4:03:58 PM
TimT - 5/15/2021 5:16:25 PM
grahamb - 5/15/2021 5:17:00 PM
GGHKX - 5/16/2021 8:06:14 AM
                         No, it hasn’t any. The GPS receiver sits on the cellular radio circuit...
TimT - 5/16/2021 10:28:58 AM
                             Thank you. The reason I ask is because when I tried it earlier at home...
GGHKX - 5/16/2021 5:11:35 PM
                         It's a minefield trying to recommend which traffic sensing box to buy;...
grahamb - 5/16/2021 5:39:36 PM
                             + x [quote] [b] grahamb - 5/16/2021 5:39:36 PM [/b]...
Robertvandortmond - 3/22/2022 11:34:26 AM
                             Dear Grahamb,You seem to be very knowledgable on this subject! Maybe...
Robertvandortmond - 3/22/2022 11:50:43 AM
                                 Have you tried it? Normally when you pair a bluetooth GNSS type...
grahamb - 3/22/2022 3:18:49 PM
                                     Ok, thanks! I get my plane in May…Robert
Robertvandortmond - 3/22/2022 5:06:04 PM
rmilkowski - 6/1/2021 8:41:09 PM
frankhopkins - 3/26/2022 12:17:24 PM
BJS - 3/26/2022 2:53:39 PM
Still_Learning - 4/16/2022 6:03:24 AM
fingertrouble - 6/8/2022 2:41:08 PM

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