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efrenken
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xWhy do we always have to discuss Pros and Cons?
Make everything adjustable/customizeable and every pilot can decide on his own what fits best to himself !! I second this. Isn't this a valid solution? I think the feedback shows that a configurable solution is very much desired to improve GA safety. It can be autoselected off, so we don't bother people how don't believe in bearingless traffic information.
Thoughts?
Kind regards Patrick Good point!
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Kurt37
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Group: Forum Members
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+xWhy do we always have to discuss Pros and Cons?
Make everything adjustable/customizeable and every pilot can decide on his own what fits best to himself !! I second this. Isn't this a valid solution? I think the feedback shows that a configurable solution is very much desired to improve GA safety. It can be autoselected off, so we don't bother people how don't believe in bearingless traffic information.
Thoughts?
Kind regards Patrick
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efrenken
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Group: Forum Members
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+xSurely, a bearingless target is still "position unknown"? All you know is that the bearingless target is at the same level as you somewhere but: 1. Range will be anywhere between 0 - 20+ NM of your current position 2. Its location will be anywhere relative to your aircraft.
Personally, I would still prefer to rely on my Mk1 eyeball for these targets rather than be alerted that an aircraft is "somewhere"..
One (the alert) does not exclude the other (Mk1 eyeball)!
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Maverix
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Group: Forum Members
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Why do we always have to discuss Pros and Cons?
Make everything adjustable/customizeable and every pilot can decide on his own what fits best to himself !!
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Tony N
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Surely, a bearingless target is still "position unknown"? All you know is that the bearingless target is at the same level as you somewhere but: 1. Range will be anywhere between 0 - 20+ NM of your current position 2. Its location will be anywhere relative to your aircraft.
Personally, I would still prefer to rely on my Mk1 eyeball for these targets rather than be alerted that an aircraft is "somewhere"..
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Peter Robertson
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At the risk of going over old ground yet again, the ONLY potentially inaccurate bit of data about a Bearingless target is the HORIZONTAL SEPARATION (due to differences in transponder transmission strength between sircraft). Vertical separation is calculated from the barometric altitude transmitted by the aircraft’s transponder, and is therefore accurate to the limits of the transponder transmissions (so no difference whatsoever in this respect from Mode-S/ES ADS-B).
An audio warning reporting ‘Traffic, 500 feet above - horizontal position unknown’ cannot therefore be described in any way as ‘inaccurate’ to any greater degree than equivalent warnings for known position traffic. You can also readily determine accurately from the data whether the broadcasting aircraft is climbing or descending - a factor which can be critical when you have no accurate horizontal position data for it.
Despite the reported significant recent increase in sales (and hopefully installations) of known-position EC devices, there will still be a very significant percentage of GA traffic out there with raw Mode-S transponders not transmitting their position (I don’t have the most recent figures, but I’d be extremely surprised if it is below 50% of GA yet - and probably still higher).
Adding an appropriate audio warning ‘Traffic, Same Level / xxx feet above/below / climbing/descending / Horizontal Position Unknown’ would immediately draw the users’ attention to looking outside the aircraft - rather than hunting for a contact on a screen. It would also allow SkyDemon (with audio) to be the ‘Go-To’ on GDL90 for both known position AND Bearingless Traffic.
Best Regards as Always
Peter
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Maverix
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Tim,
please add a audio warning for bearingless targets.
Kai
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177
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+xI don't think it needs to be that facetious, Tim. The whole idea, in this case, is just to draw your attention to the screen, so a simple "Traffic" or "Bearingless Traffic" would suffice. Even better would be "Traffic, 200 ft above".
The fact that no other information is given means I don't really even need to look at my screen because I already know it's bearingless. Being given the relative height means I REALLY don't need to look at my screen.
I do understand the scepticism and reasons for the scepticism regarding bearingless traffic but I definitely pay much more attention to looking outside if I get an orange to red circle around me, so think there is merit in the warning. An audio prompt allows that to happen sooner, as I look at the screen relatively infrequently.
I welcome the day that we all have position information in our electronic outputs but, until the CAA mandates it, we still have to live with those who plough the skies without it. Just look around the Bournemouth extended area on a busy day and see the numbers of Katanas and Diamonds, from the local training school, flying around without ADSB and you'll see it is not an imagined scenario to sometimes only have bearingless traffic. +1
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PaulSS
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I don't think it needs to be that facetious, Tim. The whole idea, in this case, is just to draw your attention to the screen, so a simple "Traffic" or "Bearingless Traffic" would suffice. Even better would be "Traffic, 200 ft above".
The fact that no other information is given means I don't really even need to look at my screen because I already know it's bearingless. Being given the relative height means I REALLY don't need to look at my screen.
I do understand the scepticism and reasons for the scepticism regarding bearingless traffic but I definitely pay much more attention to looking outside if I get an orange to red circle around me, so think there is merit in the warning. An audio prompt allows that to happen sooner, as I look at the screen relatively infrequently.
I welcome the day that we all have position information in our electronic outputs but, until the CAA mandates it, we still have to live with those who plough the skies without it. Just look around the Bournemouth extended area on a busy day and see the numbers of Katanas and Diamonds, from the local training school, flying around without ADSB and you'll see it is not an imagined scenario to sometimes only have bearingless traffic.
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Tim Dawson
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The best we could do here is a warning saying "there is traffic at around your altitude, that may or may not be close to you, and we don't know what direction it is". That isn't good enough for us, and that's why we haven't added such warnings. It's very important to us that the warnings we do give are as relevant as possible, so that people don't start tuning them out.
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