Hi



As promised, here is the finger friendly input panel I've been working on. It is intended for users of 800x480 devices, and the size has been optimised to work with SkyDemon as far as possible.







The DLL and a copy of regsvrce can be found here



I can't really give any support for installing this at the minute, but the instructions are as follows:-



Copy both files into the Windows folder of your device.

Launch regsvrce.exe

Enter 'skysip.dll' into the box and tap OK

You now need to select the SkyDemon SIP. There are various ways of doing this - you can either do it in control panel, or by tapping the keyboard/pencil icon at the bottom right of the taskbar.



If you don't have access to your desktop, then you won't be able to use this for now.



I am planning in the future to package it up so it will work on devices that don't have access to the Windows CE shell. It shouldn't be an issue to integrate it into MioPocket for those people who are using that.



Please do not pester me about this though. It'll be done when it's done! Alternatively, now I've done the difficult bit, perhaps someone else could package it?



Steve

That looks very good Stevelup. I will try to follow your instructions. All my sets are 800x480. Will keep you posted. Thanks.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

A very nice keyboard. Welldone. I managed to install it and used it in CE, but once I reboot into SD , the device reverts to the small keyboard. Looking back into windows, I note the two files have disappeared. So in brief my set reverts back to its default system of files. I tried to place the files on the memory card and direct the registry path to the memory card but the same occured. I think my registry files revert to their default value, once the device is rebooted or is turned off. I may try to edit the windows config file tomorrow. Will keep you posted. Meanwhile, if you have, and I am sure you will, any easier methods, please share them.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

A lot of devices restore themselves to factory settings after each reboot.



You're going to need a script to automatically copy, register and activate the SIP each time you launch SD.



Please download this file



Unzip it into a folder called SIP on the root of your memory card.



Next, edit the file SkyDemonLaunch.mscr

Run("\SDMMC\SIP\TaskbarHide.exe")

Sleep(250)

Copy("\SDMMC\SIP\skysip.dll", "\Windows\skysip.dll")

RunWait("\SDMMC\SIP\regsvrce.exe", "/s \Windows\skysip.dll")

RunWait("\SDMMC\SIP\sipchange.exe")

RunWait("\SDMMC\SkyDemon.exe")

RunWait("\SDMMC\SIP\TaskbarShow.exe")

The bits in bold above need changing to the name of your storage card. The above assumes SkyDemon is stored in the root of your SD card. If this is not the case, you'll need to change the penultimate line.



Finally, change your navigation path to point at SkyDemonLaunch.exe instead of your SkyDemon executable



If your device is one where you had to rename the SkyDemon executable to get it to run, then rename that back to SkyDemon.exe and instead rename the two SkyDemonLaunch files to (for example) FreedomCE.exe and FreedomCE.mscr. If you need to, you can move these files out of the SIP folder, but if you do this, you must also move the MortScript.exe file.



A side effect of doing the above will be that the SkyDemon plan software will be able to find and update your copy of SkyDemon InFlight without you needing to copy the file each time.



One final thing I'll probably write is a SIP selector that automatically selects the SkyDemon SIP without needing any user input. It may just be a registry key that needs settings - I'll investigate when I get a minute.



Enjoy!

Many thanks Stevelup for the immediate response.

I will try this tomorrow, time now near 2.00 am tomorrow being a workday

If you do not mind, tomorrow, I may copy/paste the above in the other thread of discussion (SD 2.1.1) as from yourself for ease of reference for others, unless I hear to the contrary from yourself. I think the benefit should be disseminated. I will also direct them to this thread for further discussions on this topic.



Incidentally. I stored SD in a folder: SkyDemon, with the .exe file within. on my SDMMC card with the same name (ie SDMMC). My guess is that I will find close to no difficulty in the configuring things. I will keep you posted with the outcome.

Many thanks again.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Might be better keeping discussion and support of this in one place. It'll make it easier to keep track of, and I already put a link to this thread.

Roger that!

and IT WORKED LIKE A DREAM!



Stevelup you deserve a big thank you. I will contact you tomorrow via e-mail if you do not mind. It is after 3.30 am here.



I feel this new module would benefit all SD members. Perhaps consideration can be given to incorporating this module into SD so that the configuration can be part of the SD installation process.



I am sure this module will make it easier for all SD users to enter data in-flight. Stevelup's efforts deserve to be acknowledged and encouraged perhaps formally. Can I suggest a one year free subscription? I am happy to participate.



I would be interested to know other's thoughts.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Thankyou very much Stevelup!

I've had the same problem as Runways, installed the script and it worked flawlessly.



This keyboard makes the difference!

R 44 II from Italy

Steve,
Excellent post & thanks for your hard work.
Tried it on my 480 x 272  4.3" diplay & all worked as intended, (but obviously too large).
Will install it on a friends 800 x 480 5" gps hopefully next week.
I then tried adding the "LargeKB.dll" from Miopocket (Credits to Osprey), & that gave a large keyboard for the lower resolution devices.
It only involves adding the "LargeKB.dll" to the Sip folder & adding one extra line in the "SkyDemonLaunch.mscr"

Copy("\SDMMC\SIP\LargeKB.dll", "\Windows\LargeKB.dll")

I've attached a screenshot below.

Regards,

Max.

The problem with using LargeKB on 480x272 devices is - as you can see from your screenshot - that it completely covers the search results.



I could, if there was demand, do a version of my keyboard which is targetted at 480x272 devices. There are many keys on LargeKB that are not needed - all that SD actually needs is 0-9, A-Z, Backspace and Enter.



Here's a simulation of how it would look. Note that we've saved almost 40% of screen real estate, yet the keys themselves are actually still the same size.

Steve, I certainly agree that a lot of the keys are redundant, but find it very easy to slide the keyboard around to see the rest of the screen.

I think that if you have the time & inclination, many people with the lower resolution screens would welcome an "in between" size.

I've also found that my WinCE5 unit has a EuroKeyboard option. That is a mid size keyboard but seems slow to load. (May come from the miopocket installation?) Screenshot below for those interested

Regards,

Max.

Hi



I've done a version for 480x272 devices - you'll find it here.



I don't have anything to test this on so I don't know if it works!



It theoretically should...



Steve

Hi



I've written a new gadget for selecting the SIP automatically.



Please download it here



Replace...

RunWait("\SDMMC\SIP\sipchange.exe")

...with...

RunWait("\SDMMC\SIP\AutoSelectSIP.exe")

...in the original script.



Basically, this enumerates all the installed SIPs and activates the one called either SkyDemon or SkyDemon480.



Steve

Again this works perfectly (one step less).

Thank you very much Stevelup

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Hi Folks,



Please find my final version of the package for download here.



Installation instructions are as before.



New features are:-



1) Automatically detects the path of the storage card so you don't need to manually edit the script

2) Tries to find your SkyDemon installation (it looks in the two most obvious places)

3) Detects whether you have a 800x480 or a 480x272 device and automatically copies the correct DLL

4) Automatically selects the correct SIP



Steve

Hi,



I just tried it on my device running CE 5.0.

With some hacking I could get it to launch, but I get "GetLastError returns 47e" when it tries to register the DLL.

I click ok and the taskbar hides and SD launches. SD does not expand to full screen, the bottom area of the display where the taskbar was is not used by SD.

I only get the standard small CE keyboard.


Microlight pilot from Sweden

Hi



I think the best thing to do would be to go back to basics and follow the instructions on the first page (in other words, forget my automated script for now).



Make sure you can copy the DLL and register it OK by hand first - if you can't do that, then it's never going to work.



I would say that if you're getting an error registering the DLL, you may have a read only registry or some other weird thing.



How do you normally launch SkyDemon? I can't think of anything that I'm doing that would stop it launching full screen. You could try removing the stuff I added for the taskbar in case that was an anomaly with my device.



Steve

Steve

Great stuff and much needed.

However, sorry to be a bit thick. You say same install instructions as before. But there have been a number of incarnations as you have automated it more .. each with install instructions. Looks like I just install the file you have posted into the Windows folder of my WinCE device.

Is that correct?

David

Place the SIP folder on the root of your storage card, then instead of launching SkyDemon, run SkyDemonLauncher.exe in the SIP folder.



If your device is one where you need to name the navigation executable with a particular name, then you must rename both SkyDemonLauncher.exe and SkyDemonLauncher.mscr to the new name. You can, if you wish, also move those files out of the SIP folder, but if you do that, you must also move MortScript.exe too.

Again this works straight-away perfectly this time all in just ONE step.

Thank you again Stevelup



Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Hello again Stevelup,

Can I ask if it is a good idea to add a dash key (-) function to the key board. Just thinking in terms of Route title writing eg: writing egnt-egpn, instead of egnt to egpn. Also would it be better to have all in upper case? Just a thought. It is an excellent keyboard that can be added in a very much simplified way.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

I can easily force it into upper case. There isn't room on the current design for a dash key. Could I get rid of the Enter key? It doesn't really do anything useful unless I've missed something?

Anyone tried this with a Navigon 8410. This requires a version of Miopocket to be on the card.

Am reluctant to be the guinea pig as we are just off on a trip.

D

I'm not sure whether it will work on the Navigon. I know there are no SIP's loaded on there - if that's all the problem is, then it'll work.



Unfortunately, I suspect the issue is that the CE image was built with no SIP support in which case it won't work full stop.



If someone at some point wants to send me a Navigon unit, I'll try and get it working - but it might be impossible.

Steve

Re Navigon, I can let you try mine but not for 10 days or so  .. not sure where you are  .. I am in Yorkshire  .. anyone nearer?

I also tried on the Navsgo unit and it did not work for me. Anyone else? On this unit one cannot get to the Windows Desktop or Explorer. Mean anything?

Anyway, well done Steve. Any way that Tim can take it on from here and incorporate?

D

I think you are right Steve, I don't know if the enter key is needed or not, but it has such a major function, may be too major to do without (queen on chess board). Would splitting the space-bar into two keys (2/3 space bar 1/3 dash) be a reasonable option?



It is a very nice keyboard, installation is easy, works with WinCE 5 & 6 flawlessly and extremely useful in flight. Well done.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Hi guys



David. I've tried to get this to work on my 7inch Navsgo unit but with NO luck like you Maybe it could be something that I'm/we are doing wrong?



Tony

Thanks Steve, The major problem of the keyboard on high resolution devices seems to be solved.

Also, on my winCE 6 480 x 272 4.3" gps, the autoscript works perfectly & the 480 screen is automatically loaded.

On my two WinCE 5 gps units, I can't get the skysip480.dll to register using regsvrce.exe. Also tried manually importing the  registry keys from the WinCE 6 unit but as yet, no success. The "AutoSelectSIP.exe" also throws up errors.

Guess it's just a WinCE 5 issue. Lots about it on the net but nobody seems to have the definitive answer.

For those of you having problems, are you using WinCE 5 or 6?

Regards,

Max.

I built the DLLs against the WinCE 6.0 SDK so it's not really surprising they don't work on 5.0.



The AutoSelectSIP thing was written in C# linked against the .net 2.0 framework - so I'm not clear why that would throw an error though. It should just exit silently if it can't find a registered SIP called SkyDemon or SkyDemon480.



I'll see if there's a way of building it all against a 5.0 target.

Tony

At Steve's request, I am sending him a couple of files that will enable him to see whether it shd run or not  .. 1 file for 8410 & 1 for Navsgo.

I will report back.

D

Thanks David. Steve I meant to say in my last post Thanks for all the hard work you have put in.



Tony

Hi



No idea if this will help. Can someone with a WinCE 5.0 device try this DLL instead?

Hi, I tried it on my device. Not working



Using a little tool called executabilitycheck it tells me it doesn't match CPU type (I have a Samsung ARM920T-S3C2443) and it requires OS version 5.1. OS version of this machine is 5.0

Microlight pilot from Sweden

Steve, Have you given a thought to splitting the space-bar into two keys (2/3 space bar 1/3 dash) be a reasonable option? I know you have been kept really busy with several requests simultaneously lately.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

No, what I've decided to do is make it a proper shifted keyboard with upper/lower case and symbols on the top row.



I'm busy with my day job at the moment though so no ETA for this:-

Steve, this new keyboard is just perfect and can not be faulted! No more suggestions should be accepted in this thread!

I wish I can help or even help you with your day job! this is marvellous.

My guess it would only be a matter of swapping the .dll file in our existing installation.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Strange...

I got the first version running very easily, the one with which you had to choose the keyboard type manually.



I installed the latest version. The keyboard pops up perfectly and splendid as it should, but the only key that seems to be working is the backspace!



Has anyone experienced anything like this? Any hints on what's happening?



My unit is a cheap 5" Chinese.



Enrico

R 44 II from Italy

800x480 or 480x272?

800x480

R 44 II from Italy

Please download it again - sorry about that.



Check the date on the new DLL is 02/06/11

Just to let everyone know, the 'shifted' 800x480 version is now live here.



I haven't had time to do a 480x272 version for now.

Stevelup: no need to be sorry. You've done a fabulous job.



For your info: downloaded the latest version and it works perfectly.



Thanks once more,

Enrico

R 44 II from Italy

Yes, a job well done again, Steve. Thanks.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Hmm... It's definitely for the correct CPU the issue must be with the OS version.



Exactly where is it failing?

Hi Steve,



It is just a tool for checking dependencies. It can override/overwrite the OS version required by the DLL. If I do that I can successfully register the DLL with regsrvce, and "SkyDemon480" appears in the list of input panels, but it does not work. "The selected input method could not be loaded."



Are you sure you built it for CE 5.0?

Microlight pilot from Sweden

The only SDK's I have is Windows Mobile 5.0 and Windows CE 6.0.



It looks like I need to get hold of the Windows CE 5.0 SDK.



I'll investigate.

hi



cool gadget. I tried on my navsgo wince 5.0 and also get same error thrown up that it failed to register.

I edited the mscr file and pointed it to the 50 dll, but this made no improvement. After each try i had

to reboot the device. Problem with navsgo is, that you cant get to the windows screen, but only

select particular files and programms you wish to start from the inhouse menu software.


________________________________________________________________________
Galaxy Tab Plus 7 inch, NavsGo GO7100 as of March11

OK, if someone wants to send me a WinCE 5.0 device, I'll try and get it working.



I can't really do figure it out without a unit in my hand.



The last DLL I uploaded was built against WinCE 5.0 and ran OK in the device emulator.

Any progress on this?

Steve, just to make sure, did you really build it against CE 5.0 and not Win Mobile 5.0? Those are different things...

Microlight pilot from Sweden

The first one was built against Windows CE 5.0, the second against Windows Mobile 5.0.



As I said, if someone wants to send me a CE 5.0 device, I'm happy to get it working - but no one has taken up that offer yet.

Hi



I've built a new virtual machine into which I have installed the Windows CE 5.0 Standard SDK and nothing else (so there's no possibility of any weird cross contamination happening!).



Please try this DLL.

I believe I have cracked the issue where the keyboard does not work on Windows CE 5.0 devices.







Please grab the dll again from here.

YES!



It works on my device now! Thank you Steve!



The autoselectsip does not work, so I have to set it manually, and the taskbar hiding does not make SD use full screen. Unchecking the 'always on top' for the taskbar make it work. I will have to modify the script a bit.

Microlight pilot from Sweden

Thanks Steve,

Can now confirm that the latest skysip480.dll is working correctly on all threee of my 480 x 272 GPS units.
(Two WinCE 5 & one WinCE 6)

Regards,

Max.

Great!



It was a bug in Microsoft Visual Studio. For anyone who's interested, when you change the target of a project, the IDE automatically changes most of the settings, but doesn't update the 'Subsystem' value.



So you end up with a DLL built and linked correctly against the right SDK, but with the Subsystem set at the old value. So in this case, the DLL had a Subsystem of 5.1 which was 0.1 higher than WinCE 5.0 is happy with...

Can I ask Stevelup if the new WinCE5.0 compatible keyboard is indeed compatible with all subsequent WinCE releases? Welldone again.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

Yes, it works fine on CE 6.0.



If anyone needs the 800x480 version recompiling for CE 5.0, let me know.

Great work!

I wold love a 800*480 version of this for wince5.0!

kevin

OK, I'll try and do it tomorrow.

It's done.



Grab the DLL from here.



This is all getting a bit messy now. When I get five minutes spare, I'm going to delete all these various files off my server and replace them with a single zip file containing the scripts, the regsvr tool, the AutoSIP tool and the two DLL's.



There is no point in distributing the WinCE 6.0 version of these files any more as this later version runs fine on both platforms.



Steve

By the way, try removing the task bar stuff completely out of the script. SkyDemon tries to take over the screen anyway, and it may be that my task bar stuff is interfering.



I added that for one particular problem device.

I would love to get this to work on my Mio V735 (running WinCE 6.0), however I cannot register the skysip.dll.



When I manually run regsvrce.exe, nothing happens! Consequently I am unable to load the SIP.



I would be very grateful to hear any ideas people may have to resolve the problem. Are there particular registry entries which are added when registering the .dll? If so, would it be possible to write these entries manually via my script which runs at boot?



Many thanks,



Richard Avery

I've no idea what happens when a DLL is registered to be honest!



Please use this regsvr tool instead. The version you need is the ARMV4i.



It's command line only so you'll either have to do it from a command prompt on your device, or wrap it in a MortScript.

Thanks Steve, that worked like a charm!



Many thanks for your help and well done for creating such a great addition to SkyDemon Mobile.



Richard Avery

For those of you who are interested, when using RegServer (gbregsrv.exe), the code required to wrap the process in MortScript is:



RunWait(SipFolder\"gbregsrv.exe", "\Windows\skysip.dll -s")

Stevelup- I'm sure you must be getting a bit fed up by now of daft questions, so sorry about this one. I have read all the pages in this post and to be honest have become quite confused. I have a 7 inch chinese no name with winCe 5.  But I still can't work out if the work you have done will suit my device or if it's just for the winCe 6 models, if it is for mine would it be possible for you to point me to the file I should download please? 

I do rememer you asking for someone to send you a device with win CE5 on it to try but not sure if you still need one, if you do, then when I've been flying next Tuesday, I'll be happy to send mine

Thanks

7" WinCE 5.0 compatible files are here



Regards,



Steve

Thanks Steve I'll have go at installing it later

I'm getting nowhere with this at all. I've downloaded the above file. I went to unzip gbresrv file, but had difficulty extracting it to my device because it only shows up as a device and not a drive. I then extracted it to the desktop and from there copied it to the windows folder on my device. I then copied the sip.dll file to the windows folder.  I went to the ce desktop of my device and opened windowns where I found the gbresrv.exe file and clicked on it but I got this message. " Invalid command argument, Use the following syntax gbregsrv.exe dll name [-u] [-s]  -u = unregister, -s =silent mode

It's probably obvious what I'm doing wrong but I can't spot it. Any help appreciated.

Thanks

gbregsrv is command line only - you can't double click it.



Have a look in the folder and download nje.zip. Empty all the files in that folder into your \Windows folder, then double click regdll.exe on your device.

Hi folks,



I've re-packaged my original bundle which can be found here.



Extract this zip file (including the folder) to the root of your SD card, then point your navigation link at SkyDemonLaunch.exe.



If you have a device where you need to rename the executable in order to launch SkyDemon, rename both SkyDemonLaunch.exe and SkyDemonLaunch.mscr to the name you need (for example FreedomCE.exe and FreedomCE.mscr), and place them on the root of your SD card along with MortScript.exe.



The files in this archive have been tested on Windows CE 5.0, Windows Mobile 5.0 and Windows CE 6.0.



The script automatically detects your screen resolution, installs and registers the correct SIP, then activates it before finally launching SkyDemon (which it expects to find either in the root of the SD card or in a folder called SkyDemon).



Regards,



Steve

Steve, thanks for all the time and effort you have put into this, but dispite your best efforts on my personal behalf I'm still not getting anywhere. This has nearly become a fulltime issue, I've spent hours on it..

Firstly, I copied all the files you were good enough to put in the nje folder, into the windows folder of my device. I then went into the windows folder on my device and attempted to double click the regdll.exe, but nothing happened. I loaded  (overcopied them)  9 times into the windows folder but no luck. So I then tried your latest all singing and dancing  self automated file.I folowed your instructions and set the navpath to skydemonelaunch.exe and off it went, Skydemon loaded up no trouble, but unfortunately no large keyboard, still the poxy little one. One thing I did notice though, when skydemon started to load something popped up on the screen in the top lefthand corner which I think said something like 'SD SIP enabled'  Thank you very much for your so far, but I think I'll have resign myself to the fact that either me or the device is defective, and I'm not really sure it's the device.

Thanks

I don't really know why it's not working for you. You're the first person that couldn't get it going.



Do you have access to Control Panel on your device? If so, have a look in the Input Panel section after running my scripts and see if you can see SkyDemon listed in there.



It is much more likely that the problem is with the scripts than the SIP itself. You could try a completely manual install of it:-



1) Copy skysip.dll or skysip480.dll into your windows folder

2) Copy regsrvce.exe from here into your windows folder

3) Browse to your windows folder and double tap regsvrce

4) Click 'browse', then browse to your windows folder and double tap the skysip.dll file

5) You should get a message saying DLL Registration Succeded

6) Go into control panel > input panel (or click the icon at the bottom right by the clock) and see again if you can activate the SkyDemon SIP



If it is the scripts that are broken, and the manual install worked OK, then I'd still like to work out why so I can fix the scripts.



Failing all that, if you want to send me your unit or meet up somewhere, I'm sure we can sort it out.

Steve, Thanks.

I appreciate your help, I'mgoing flying this morning and will be giving the new beta release a bit of a test so will have a go at your suggestions when I get back in later this afternoon. Thanks for your patience and perserverance

Dispite your good efforts, no success, I've PM'd you

Success at last, and it reallly is an excellent addition to skydemon. I would have liked to have claimed the credit for eventually getting it working on my device but it was all down to Stevelup spending a lot of his time lastnight sorting it out for me. It turned out that I wasn't quite a  dim wit,although not far off, but that my device had some strange peculiaritiies which needed a different approach. It now works perfectly, Thanks Steve, I appreciate your help.

Hi Folks,



Latest version of SkySIP here



New features:-



Single DLL for both 800x480 and 480x272 devices

Supports landscape and portrait orientation and automatically rotates and resizes

Includes a new mini keyboard for 480x272 devices in portrait mode

Compatible with Windows Mobile 5.0, Windows CE 5.0 and Windows CE 6.0



Steve

I can't get the download link for regsrvce.exe to work

I've fixed the link

Steve

Sorry to be a bit clueless but there have been many "instructions" for loading this as you have done all the hard work on developing this.

Pl could you give an idiot's guide to installation with the latest package. All I can see is one dll file and am thinking I need to change the names of the .exe and morstcript files  .. but not sure. I have no access to the desktop on my WinCE machine.

Thanks & apologies

In a nutshell, grab the 'complete install' zip file and extract it to a folder on your SD card named SIP.



Set your 'navigation path' to SkyDemonLaunch.exe in the SIP folder, and it should just work.



If it doesn't, then you'll need to do some manual tweaking.

Steve

When I unzip after downloading from your link, all I get is 1 file called skysip.dll (total of 44K).

Is that correct?

David

Try again now - I've also updated the archive to include the latest auto-sizing version

Steve, thanks again.

We humble 480 x 272 users now get the dual keyboard.

There is one small typo in the SkyDemonLaunch.mscr, 7th line from the end:

RunWait(SipFolder\"gbregsvr.exe", "-s \Windows\skysip.dll")  Should be?:
RunWait(SipFolder\"gbregsrv.exe", "\Windows\skysip.dll -s")

A cheek, I know but any chance of adding or substituting the " ." & "_"  keys. (Full stop & Underscore).
Could then use it for all the other satnav progs & editing in explorer.

Thanks again & Regards,

Max

How do numpties like me go in and change the typo please?

Not yet working on Navsgo

Tx

D

Right click on SkyDemonLaunch.mscr and choose 'open with'. From the list, choose notepad.



I'll fix it in the zip file tomorrow.

Thanks - I've updated the ZIP file.



With regards to full stop and underscore, I could change the space key to include a full stop, but is underscore really necessary when a dash is available?

Steve

Works a treat now on Navsgo. Great stuff. many thanks.

Anyone been brave enough or technical enough to see if it works on Navigon 8410??

David

I have offered several times to try and get it working on a Navigon but no-one ever sent me a unit.



I fear the answer is quite likely to be a no though.

Steve,

Have to agree, underscore not as useful as full stop.

Regards,

Max

I rather agree re navigon & No.

Now Tim has improved map redraw speed, no crashing at map borders etc, am going back to Navsgo 7" as main unit in cockpit.

If this goes well, I will have a think about letting you play with my 8410  .. must avoid bricking it though!

D