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Hi all,
If this topic has been dealt with before then my apologies for re-posting, please point me to the relevant forum topic in that case.
As you all know Jeppesen has stopped selling the paper charts that many of us have used over the years for flying throughout Europe. Since these are no longer available there seems to be no (easy) way to get hold of charts in different countries to use for VFR navigation.
I am planning a flight from Oostende in Belgium to Catania in Sicily in a few weeks through Belgium, Luxemburg, Germany, France, Switzerland, Corsica and Italy so I am in desperate need of a good APP that will allow me to fly these 1500 to 2000NM in full confidence that I will be correctly informed about airspace location and restrictions and not make any infringements into forbidden area's etc...
Is Skydemon an APP that will allow me to do so?
While going through the forums I noticed that there was some concern by some users about visual reference points being in the wrong location on the maps, especially when flying in unfamiliar areas, this can be an issue since we are flying visually after all and airport location and entry points are often linked to visual features.
Any feedback on the legal position of the software and data used (is the software in any way validated to make sure that the information is accurate?) and some feedback from current users would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
Björn
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Group: Forum Members
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Further to the discussion regarding the legality of charts. I too am in the same position as BCS112. A new flying season is upon us and to have consistency of cross boarder flying, i thought, yep, back to the Jepessen shop for me. There's nothing wrong with the DFS German charts and the VFR 500 they are producing, in order to capture the market and promote DFS products. However, considering when you need to buy 6 charts for Germany alone, as opposed to 4 max from Jepessen, there's a disparity in price. I know, flying is not a cheap hobby, and i shouldn't be concerned about a few Euro's here or there, but it's the principal of it, all. I just feel that the German charts, are more of a 'rip-off', besides, i personally prefer the Jepessen format and overall consistency. So now to the point regarding the legality aspects, during training i was led to believe that, good airmanship and a legal requirement was to have proper flight planning and that the only 'allowed' source of charts were officially produce ICAO charts. Whether from DFS, or Jepessen, or whomever. Or in more sophisticated aircraft a certified electronic form of the chart's such as Garmin 1000 series, or Avidyne etc. (Also note that even Garmin make a claim that even though their databases such as used in Garmin 430 in a VFR sense should not be used as a sole means of navigation - a disclaimer). However these certified hardware/software/database combo's are exactly that, certified and ratified by the legal authorities in question, EASA being the predominant authority in Europe. Now i have a concern, and this is not meant as a reflection on Sky Demon, that there is a tendency to use tablet devices, from a consumer environment in the aviation sector, where we all know that, certification of the product is most likely the largest proportion of the costs to the hardware than the hardware itself. I am sure the tablet manufactures themselves, wouldn't stump up the costs in order to perform these certification aspects. So let's say for a minute that we can over come the hardware issues, as highlighted by RobinHood that the LBA at least say that the user has to ensure operation of the device. This leads us to the aspect of the underlying charts/database/software certification. Sky demon themselves quote in their FAQ's
This looks great! Can I throw away my charts now?Not necessarily. This software is intended to be used as an aid for planning and as an aid while flying and it does not replace any of your primary tools or cockpit instruments. We're not certified by the CAA or any other governing body, and neither is our data. Local regulations might mandate the carrying of a particular paper chart. You should always check any calculations and data displayed, and suggestions made, against your own calculations and charts.
so that then leaves us, the pilots/users in an quandary. What do we use? Are we 'allowed' to use only the electronic charts on a non-certified hardware device? How certain are we that the underlying charts/database/software is accurate and reliable? Again, this is no reflection directed solely at Sky Demon despite their disclaimer, i also had the same questions about the Jepessen electronic equivalent to Sky Demon, (which was more expensive to use and maintain i might add). If there are no guarantees that the database charts are accurate, then does that mean i still have to purchase the paper charts, to stay 'legal', even if i would never use them for actual 'planning'. Admittedly, the functionality and ease that i have seen in the trial version of Sky Demon approach is very impressive. (Although, I am a Mac user, so can only use the web based version, and my iPad, is a version one, so no longer supports iOS 6, which is what is required for operation. It runs perfectly well on my iPhone, however, the screen is somewhat too small for long term usage and ease of use). It might seem a minor point of legality, however, it's an important issue that needs to be addressed. I have nothing against new innovations, and technology to make flying easier and more comfortable. In fact I'm an advocate of it. However, there is that little nagging feeling in the back of my head, that if i fly without a paper based 'back-up', and only use reference to the electronic chart means (whomever is the provider), then am i automatically invalidating my insurance as soon as i move 'off-block'? Perhaps there are some out there, even Sky Demon themselves, that could clarify this issue. I understand that, Sky Demon, need to make their disclaimers, i don't have an problem with that, as they too have a limited liability arrangement. Is it sufficient, to fly electronically? Is it it sufficient, in light of the LBA at least from RobinHood to use a database from a provider if they are certified as a company and the base maps are certified, even if the hardware or software is not? Apologies for the long post, but i'd like to get things clarified and make and informed decision before i go down the electronic charting route. (It might mean i'd have to invest in a new iPad and run windows my mac); Or just suffer it and purchase the multitude of nationally issued charts and the varying differences that they invite, despite, most claiming they follow ICAO 'guidelines'. thanks
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