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Chris_S
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I'm nearing the end of a LAPL course and researching overhead joins as there are so many different opinions its not clear to me what the correct method is. It does seem unsafe to me if different people fly it differently.
From what I can tell, the skydemon function to help people into the circuit looks useful but it is not an overhead join, should the feature be renamed to 'Circuit Join' perhaps?
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Tony N
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Chris, I think the SD function is simply to position you in the, generally, correct location to conduct the type of join you have selected. You really shouldn't be looking at your SD device when in the circuit - maximum lookout required in that, potentially, busy aviation environment. I may quickly glance at my SD display to see if I am, more or less, following the necessary circuit path, especially at an airfield I haven't visited before, but that is about it! Tony
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Chris_S
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+xChris, I think the SD function is simply to position you in the, generally, correct location to conduct the type of join you have selected. You really shouldn't be looking at your SD device when in the circuit - maximum lookout required in that, potentially, busy aviation environment. I may quickly glance at my SD display to see if I am, more or less, following the necessary circuit path, especially at an airfield I haven't visited before, but that is about it! Tony Agree, I've never actually used SkyDemon in flight, I was just commenting on the confusion over what an overhead join is Vs what skydemon calls an overhead join ...
Chris
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grahamb
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Overhead joins are straightforward, but the CAA poster is misleading as it creates the impression that you can only join it from one direction.
The reality is that it’s a big roundabout in the sky, with a diameter slighter longer than the runway in use. You join it from any direction, always turning in the circuit direction, and keep going round until abeam the landing threshold when you start your dead side descent to be at circuit height as you go crosswind.
SkyDemon doesn’t depict all of that so it just gives you the final crosswind descent in the correct direction to a nominal circuit. It would be better if the nominal circuit bit was removed as it serves to confuse.
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JSAG
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+xOverhead joins are straightforward, but the CAA poster is misleading as it creates the impression that you can only join it from one direction. The reality is that it’s a big roundabout in the sky, with a diameter slighter longer than the runway in use. You join it from any direction, always turning in the circuit direction, and keep going round until abeam the landing threshold when you start your dead side descent to be at circuit height as you go crosswind. SkyDemon doesn’t depict all of that so it just gives you the final crosswind descent in the correct direction to a nominal circuit. It would be better if the nominal circuit bit was removed as it serves to confuse. I agree grahamb. The other piece of advice I was given was if it's a left hand circuit always have the airfield on your left as you approach, join the overhead and circuit. And visa versa.
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Chris_S
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The roundabout concept makes sense, so its in the same direction as the circuit at 2000ft, everyone enters at whatever position suits them but drops out of it when they reach dead-side. Presumably if you happen to arrive on the dead-side you can just descend as you go through the deadside and slot in like when you join the circuit. What if you don't know the circuit direction, perhaps if its unmanned or you need to see the big square runway direction sign?
Its the first I have heard of tis method despite the nav training and reading all the PPL books, I wonder how many people do this and how many people do something entirely different.
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Tony N
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+xThe roundabout concept makes sense, so its in the same direction as the circuit at 2000ft, everyone enters at whatever position suits them but drops out of it when they reach dead-side. Presumably if you happen to arrive on the dead-side you can just descend as you go through the deadside and slot in like when you join the circuit. What if you don't know the circuit direction, perhaps if its unmanned or you need to see the big square runway direction sign?
Its the first I have heard of tis method despite the nav training and reading all the PPL books, I wonder how many people do this and how many people do something entirely different. Chris, Remember that it should be 2000 ft above airfield height. So at somewhere like Compton Abbas you are overhead at something like 2850 ft AMSL! If you arrive at an unmanned airfield, you would already be self-briefed as to the "preferred" circuit direction! Just keep at the joining altitude until you have figured out wind direction and runway in use. I sometimes use Windy to get an indication of the surface wind at my destination, should the radio be unmanned or non-existent. Tony
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russellp
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I’ve always thought that the overhead join arrow should be a full U shape extending back as far as the downwind numbers for full clarity, however knowing this negates the need for it to be displayed that way, you simply have to know that it needs extending. If approaching from the dead side the correct point to join the roundabout in the sky is over the upwind numbers at ohj height and then circle to the downwind numbers without losing height before commencing dead side descent over the downwind numbers. No-one should need more than the runway length for a dead side descent. I guess extending to a full U would require SD to make a stand on the often controversial point about whether the dead side descent should start over the numbers (as most of us were taught) or nearly a mile away as depicted in the CAA diagrams above!
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