Standard overhead joins wrong...?

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Standard overhead joins wrong...?

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ChrisB	C ChrisB posted 9/5/2022 12:33:07 PM HOT Topic Details Share Topic
C Group: Forum Members Posts: 5, Visits: 11	Having received the runway in use and circuit direction when close to an airfield I do some hurried mental gymnastics to work out how to approach for a standard overhead join. I recently discovered the SD “Make Approach” function and was very pleased to see there is a “Standard Overhead” join option. The first time I used it in the air was arriving at Enstone. I selected Make Approach, Runway 26, Standard Overhead. A nice big purple arrow appeared “for guidance on where to join” (to quote the SD video tutorial). I started heading towards the arrow, but after even more hurried mental gymnastics realised I would be joining from the opposite direction to that required and made corrections. I have since used the same function arriving at other airfields and they are all wrong. According to SD a standard overhead join is approached from the dead side, with descent on the live side to join the circuit. According to the CAA a correct standard overhead join is approached from the live side, with descent on the dead side to join the circuit on the crosswind leg. This is more than just misleading it is plain wrong. At worst, a pilot following SD’s guidance would conflict with a pilot doing a ‘correct’ overhead join. At best he would be joining high on the downwind leg and making a total hash of the circuit. I’ve attached below a screenshot from SD and a CAA diagram of a standard overhead join to illustrate my point. Comments welcome – is there something I’m missing here? Chris
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André	André posted 7/15/2024 5:14:51 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 24, Visits: 58	Hi! I am a PPL-A student in Norway and the essence of this very topic has been difficult for me to grasp as there seems to be different opinions on how to do this procedure. My post is oriented more towards how to do a correct standard overhead join (SOJ), rather than how SkyDemon depicts it in the app. After all, if there are different ways of flying the SOJ, obviously SkyDemon (SD) can’t know how you are executing the SOJ procedure. Reading through the post I must say my interpretation on how to execute the standard overhead join (SOJ) aligns with the understanding of ChrisB. Tim Dawson writes that it is not common to execute the SOJ from the live side if arriving from the dead/non-traffic side, but isn’t this a pilot error? Shouldn’t the SOJ always be flown as per definition? I don’t see the point of doing a SOJ if it is not as per definition, changing it up arguably attenuates the very point of a standardization, enhancing aviation safety through reproducibility and predictability. The post from David Jonstone is an example. However, I definitely see that it is easier to just descend to pattern altitude immediately if arriving on the dead side, but now it is my understanding that you are not doing a standard overhead join, rather a modified overhead join. Please correct me if I am wrong! So if you don’t mind a question from a PPL-a student with no practical experience on how to perform a SOJ, are we disagreeing on how to perform this procedure? Or do we agree on how it is done, but do not adhere to the SOJ procedure as per definition when actually executing it? I just found this link explaining the SOJ procedure. Note the two diagrams. Do we agree that this is the correct way of doing it, every time? So I guess there are several questions: Q1: are there different published standards on how to do this, eg. from EASA/Europe? Q2: how do you execute this procedure if different from the published standard? Q3: if there is one defined way of performing the SOJ, would it be better if SD changed the pink arrow to indicate arrival from the live side, 180 dgr turn with descent at the dead side before joining the pattern? Please enlighten me and help me do this correctly =) Thank you very much! Sources: - https://www.aviation.govt.nz/licensing-and-certification/pilots/flight-training/fixed-wing-flight-training-safety-strategy/standard-overhead-join/ - https://www.aviation.govt.nz/assets/publications/posters/standard-overhead-join.pdf - https://www.aviation.govt.nz/assets/publications/posters/standard-overhead-join-right-hand-pattern.pdf Edited 7/15/2024 6:11:47 PM by Anterialis
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grahamb	grahamb posted 7/16/2024 4:16:22 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 575, Visits: 27K	+x André - 7/15/2024 5:14:51 PM Hi! I am a PPL-A student in Norway and the essence of this very topic has been difficult for me to grasp as there seems to be different opinions on how to do this procedure. My post is oriented more towards how to do a correct standard overhead join (SOJ), rather than how SkyDemon depicts it in the app. After all, if there are different ways of flying the SOJ, obviously SkyDemon (SD) can’t know how you are executing the SOJ procedure. Reading through the post I must say my interpretation on how to execute the standard overhead join (SOJ) aligns with the understanding of ChrisB. Tim Dawson writes that it is not common to execute the SOJ from the live side if arriving from the dead/non-traffic side, but isn’t this a pilot error? Shouldn’t the SOJ always be flown as per definition? I don’t see the point of doing a SOJ if it is not as per definition, changing it up arguably attenuates the very point of a standardization, enhancing aviation safety through reproducibility and predictability. The post from David Jonstone is an example. However, I definitely see that it is easier to just descend to pattern altitude immediately if arriving on the dead side, but now it is my understanding that you are not doing a standard overhead join, rather a modified overhead join. Please correct me if I am wrong! So if you don’t mind a question from a PPL-a student with no practical experience on how to perform a SOJ, are we disagreeing on how to perform this procedure? Or do we agree on how it is done, but do not adhere to the SOJ procedure as per definition when actually executing it? I just found this link explaining the SOJ procedure. Note the two diagrams. Do we agree that this is the correct way of doing it, every time? So I guess there are several questions: Q1: are there different published standards on how to do this, eg. from EASA/Europe? Q2: how do you execute this procedure if different from the published standard? Q3: if there is one defined way of performing the SOJ, would it be better if SD changed the pink arrow to indicate arrival from the live side, 180 dgr turn with descent at the dead side before joining the pattern? Please enlighten me and help me do this correctly =) Thank you very much! Sources: - https://www.aviation.govt.nz/licensing-and-certification/pilots/flight-training/fixed-wing-flight-training-safety-strategy/standard-overhead-join/ - https://www.aviation.govt.nz/assets/publications/posters/standard-overhead-join.pdf - https://www.aviation.govt.nz/assets/publications/posters/standard-overhead-join-right-hand-pattern.pdf André, The simple answer is that different countries have different preferred methods for joining the circuit - for example a French overhead join is different to a UK one, and SD's depiction is not really intended to give you any more than a reminder on which way to turn and when to descend. Even that may not apply in your locale. You are a student, so discuss this with your instructor, and/or look in your Flying Training reference books, then see how SD can be applied for your local method.
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