|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
Hi! I believe this is a good idea and should be tested in Beta.. To clarify: if you tab the Flight Details badge two items of importance can be preselected: The first one: flight rules (in this case set to VFR..) and the second one: "Cruising Level". When tapping that a column of preselected altitudes will show up, starting at 1000ft, then 2000 ft, followed by 3000ft and so on... However, when flying VFR, it´s not a good idea to select these altitudes as SERA.5005 (g) and Appendix 3 state that you should fly at 3500 ft rather than 3000ft or 5500 ft rather than 5000ft - FL75 rather than FL70. So I suggest to replace the preselected altitudes 1000, 2000, 3000 and so on by adding 1500 and 2500, then to replace the Thousands by 3500, 4500, 5500 and so on. All the best, Björn
|
|
|
|
|
bhofland
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1,
Visits: 5
|
Maybe even look at standardizing conform semi circular rules like suggesting east uneven ( 3500, 5500 ) and west even numbers ( 4500, 6500 ).
|
|
|
|
|
Michael Sartori
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7,
Visits: 1
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
I´m very sorry, Michael - I did a search, but couldn´t find your similar thread... However, I´m not happy with Tim´s answer over there.
If the first edit would be to choose between VFR and IFR, the CRZ LVL window could be filled accordingly. So, no cluttering would take place - simple as that. VFR = thousands + 500, IFR = as is now.. For those wishing to enter Flight Levels instead a manual entry is already possible.
Thank you, Björn
|
|
|
|
|
Michael Sartori
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7,
Visits: 1
|
+xI´m very sorry, Michael - I did a search, but couldn´t find your similar thread... However, I´m not happy with Tim´s answer over there.
If the first edit would be to choose between VFR and IFR, the CRZ LVL window could be filled accordingly. So, no cluttering would take place - simple as that. VFR = thousands + 500, IFR = as is now.. For those wishing to enter Flight Levels instead a manual entry is already possible.
Thank you, Björn
|
|
|
|
|
Peter Baier
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9,
Visits: 10
|
+xHi! I believe this is a good idea and should be tested in Beta.. To clarify: if you tab the Flight Details badge two items of importance can be preselected: The first one: flight rules (in this case set to VFR..) and the second one: "Cruising Level". When tapping that a column of preselected altitudes will show up, starting at 1000ft, then 2000 ft, followed by 3000ft and so on... However, when flying VFR, it´s not a good idea to select these altitudes as SERA.5005 (g) and Appendix 3 state that you should fly at 3500 ft rather than 3000ft or 5500 ft rather than 5000ft - FL75 rather than FL70. So I suggest to replace the preselected altitudes 1000, 2000, 3000 and so on by adding 1500 and 2500, then to replace the Thousands by 3500, 4500, 5500 and so on. All the best, Björn
I like this idea very much, however I'd add an additional suggestion: Why not preselect the VFR-leg altitudes with CRZ LVL next to leg MSA? If someone wants to fly lower than MSA, that's a different story, but if authorities spot check your flight planning docs (happened to me recently by chance 2 times), it would be good to be on the safe side according SERA...
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
Just some comments:
1. Preferably, the picklist values should be editable: - The present picklist values are useless for VFR and SD is primarily intended to be a VFR tool. - I often fly in 3200 ft due to airspace C above in 3500 ft. - Pilots who fly VFR as well as IRF could adjust some picklist entry fields for their VFR trips (3500, 4500, ...) and some other fields for IFR (FL 90, FL 100, ...).
2. The picklist should also pop up when changing the altitude in the leg properties menu. I need this much more often than the general cruise altitude setting in the route menu.
3. Semi circular cruising altitudes are west-east in most countries, but Italy has north-south. I don’t think, SD should invest in a complicated algorithm that automatically proposes preferred altitudes.
|
|
|
|
|
TXR
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8,
Visits: 0
|
+x
2. The picklist should also pop up when changing the altitude in the leg properties menu. I need this much more often than the general cruise altitude setting in the route menu.
You can just drag a segment to a new altitude in the profile view at the bottom
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
+x+x
2. The picklist should also pop up when changing the altitude in the leg properties menu. I need this much more often than the general cruise altitude setting in the route menu.
You can just drag a segment to a new altitude in the profile view at the bottom Off topic. The discussion here is going only about the picklist values and not on how to change altitudes in general.
|
|
|
|
|
pilot-byom
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 323,
Visits: 388
|
+xOff topic. The discussion here is going only about the picklist values and not on how to change altitudes in general. Agreed ... and we already found out that the pick list in Skydemon is just a convenience list with no claim to be checked against regulations (which would mean a major development task - i.e. what to do about a cross border flight between one country using semicircular rules and another using octocircular rules? SERA is not the only, but just another regulation framework on this world).
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Do you really want all this stuff instead of pressing four digits on your keyboard to type the altitude?
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
It was just a comment with an idea to make the picklist fitting the various needs discussed.
The point is, that the present picklist with fixed values could be a really handy feature, but the values are in general useless for the great majority of pilots using SD.
So I would be happy, if the fixed values would be x500 instead of x000.
I think, this change could be implemented as minor change without an extensive review and test process.
|
|
|
|
|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
+xIt was just a comment with an idea to make the picklist fitting the various needs discussed. The point is, that the present picklist with fixed values could be a really handy feature, but the values are in general useless for the great majority of pilots using SD. So I would be happy, if the fixed values would be x500 instead of x000. I think, this change could be implemented as minor change without an extensive review and test process. I totally agree. Should be very easy to implement in the Beta - looking forward to testing it! If flight rules VFR are chosen in the first step (as 90% of the SD users will...) the CRZ LVL window should show values with x500. That´s it :-)
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
I'm not actually aware of people picking these x500 altitudes to fly VFR here in the UK. Is this a regional thing?
|
|
|
|
|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
No, it‘s not a regional thing, it‘s the law. ICAO Annex 2 states so, and that‘s what the European rule says - actually word-by-word.
So, when flying VFR, it´s not only a good idea to select these altitudes as SERA.5005 (g) and Appendix 3 state that you should fly at 3500 ft rather than 3000ft or 5500 ft rather than 5000ft - FL75 rather than FL70.
Best, Björn
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
To answer Tim’s question correctly:
It’s a regional thing. The region is called Europe ;-))
|
|
|
|
|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
To be exactly clear: the region is worldwide as it‘s an ICAO standard for collision avoidance since the beginning of the Cold War 😉
Just kiddin‘, no offense!!
Best Björn
|
|
|
|
|
177
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 72,
Visits: 757
|
+xI'm not actually aware of people picking these x500 altitudes to fly VFR here in the UK. Is this a regional thing? It's an internationally accepted cruising levels like others mentioned before and it's a pain in the butt to manually adjust them. Everybody will appreciate if you'll do them just like in the Garmin Pilot: West, East or ALL tab. Besides that it shows how much fuel and time will be spent at a particular level at a selected power settings. Very handy and easy to implement.
Foreflight aslo does the same things:
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
That is simply not how people fly VFR in the vast majority of flights. Presumably you're referring to long-distance touring VFR?
|
|
|
|
|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
+xThat is simply not how people fly VFR in the vast majority of flights. Excuse me, but I cannot agree. However, I have understood you don´t want to change the settings here - well, it´s your business, you know... Please understand me as I´m unsubscribing to this thread now... *KOPFSCHÜTTELUNDWECH* So long, Björn
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
Hi Tim, I cannot agree to your „arguments“ too. As a professional tool, SD shall be based on the legislation and not on pilots mentioned, who have obviously not received a sufficient theory training. For your convenience, I provide the link to the official text: „ DF“">https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:281:0001:0066:EN  DF“
|
|
|
|
|
bashope
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9,
Visits: 0
|
+xHi Tim, I cannot agree to your „arguments“ too. As a professional tool, SD shall be based on the legislation and not on pilots mentioned, who have obviously not received a sufficient theory training. For your convenience, I provide the link to the official text: „ DF“"> DF“">https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:281:0001:0066:EN DF“
How (some) pilots don't know about this, is beyond me.
Here in Germany, if you fly above transition altitude (which I hope all pilots know what it is) of 5000 ft, you should follow the semi-circular rules as you have shared.
Of course, typically, VFR pilots in Germany will fly in Class E, which even though is "controlled" airspace, 2-way communication is not mandatory, so I guess some pilots will not know and not care about the assigned flight levels which one should fly at, but I'm really surprised to hear someone saying they don't know of anyone who complies...
*On the other hand*, we are talking about flight levels here, not altitudes. So even if I would appreciate being able to choose the appropriate "altitude" that I would like to fly at, it would have to be converted to Flight Level, so I assume SkyDemon would need to constantly check the local QNH and convert to Flight Level, by taking the "real" altitude from GPS? I agree it sounds complicated, so in my mind there are 2 options... either doing it properly, getting the laws from each region, and providing a proper suggestion to the pilot, or not having anything at all and just allowing manual input. But indeed the suggestions as they are today are totally useless (to me).
|
|
|
|
|
TXR
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xHi Tim, I cannot agree to your „arguments“ too. As a professional tool, SD shall be based on the legislation and not on pilots mentioned, who have obviously not received a sufficient theory training. For your convenience, I provide the link to the official text: „ DF“"> DF“">https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:281:0001:0066:EN DF“
How (some) pilots don't know about this, is beyond me.
Here in Germany, if you fly above transition altitude (which I hope all pilots know what it is) of 5000 ft, you should follow the semi-circular rules as you have shared.
Of course, typically, VFR pilots in Germany will fly in Class E, which even though is "controlled" airspace, 2-way communication is not mandatory, so I guess some pilots will not know and not care about the assigned flight levels which one should fly at, but I'm really surprised to hear someone saying they don't know of anyone who complies...
*On the other hand*, we are talking about flight levels here, not altitudes. So even if I would appreciate being able to choose the appropriate "altitude" that I would like to fly at, it would have to be converted to Flight Level, so I assume SkyDemon would need to constantly check the local QNH and convert to Flight Level, by taking the "real" altitude from GPS? I agree it sounds complicated, so in my mind there are 2 options... either doing it properly, getting the laws from each region, and providing a proper suggestion to the pilot, or not having anything at all and just allowing manual input. But indeed the suggestions as they are today are totally useless (to me). What's the problem with picking 6500 ft in SD for planning purposes, and then flying FL065 at whatever altitude that happens to be that day? It's neither relevant for filed VFR flight plans nor for ATC as you fly. SD also doesn't feed your onboard Nav or A/P. I don't see why SD should have to crack their skulls over this and make the product more technically complex with no benefit.
|
|
|
|
|
BJS
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 47,
Visits: 149
|
+x[quote]Here in Germany, if you fly above transition altitude (which I hope all pilots know what it is) of 5000 ft, you should follow the semi-circular rules as you have shared. I suggest you brush up your knowledge - since the introduction of SERA even in Germany flying semi-circular rules start at 3000ft. I admit it is a bit odd for the former land of invention of overly following any rules, in reality they indeed give a sh*t and start following rules above 5000, but even there it is not the correct way to do.
|
|
|
|
|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
+x+x[quote]Here in Germany, if you fly above transition altitude (which I hope all pilots know what it is) of 5000 ft, you should follow the semi-circular rules as you have shared. I suggest you brush up your knowledge - since the introduction of SERA even in Germany flying semi-circular rules start at 3000ft. I admit it is a bit odd for the former land of invention of overly following any rules, in reality they indeed give a sh*t and start following rules above 5000, but even there it is not the correct way to do. So plz let us know: what would be the correct way in your opinion then? And why would that actually prevent the dev from changing the input fields as requested?
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
As well known, here on the continent we drive on the wrong side 😉, but at least in the air, we do have the same rules as in the UK. In my opinion it is irresponsible to warp the majority of (VFR) SD users into flying in altitudes reserved for IFR traffic.
|
|
|
|
|
grahamb
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 595,
Visits: 29K
|
Of course, if the 'IFR' flight rules option is selected, you'd want the current 'round thousands' pick list to be displayed, not the VFR list.
This then raises the question - should the VFR or IFR list be displayed when 'Mixed' flight rules is selected?
|
|
|
|
|
Adam Erchegyi
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 104,
Visits: 2.3K
|
SkyDemon is a VFR tool, so x500 should be the default without any additional setting. To go even further, aircraft cruise performance data should also default x500 levels. When setting that up (when done properly), it's definitely not pressing 4 digits on the keyboard...
|
|
|
|
|
ArnaudC
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 83,
Visits: 137
|
+xTo go even further, aircraft cruise performance data should also default x500 levels. When setting that up (when done properly), it's definitely not pressing 4 digits on the keyboard... The altitude in the performance profile is only a field, you can enter as many lines or as few (down to one) as you want. I have tried several variants, and seen that a point every 2000ft gives me good enough interpolation. But if you want to enter a data point every 50ft or 500ft, it would work too. One point works as well. You don't usually create a new profile every week, we don't need a drop-down with pre-filled data on everything. +xshould the VFR or IFR list be displayed when 'Mixed' flight rules is selected? I would go for the IFR levels, as the VFR portion tends to be a minor part of a mixed flight. My view only.
More importantly, if this feature makes the cut I would want to see the predefined x000 or x500 in the "find best altitude for flight", because there I don't have the choice of writing it myself, only to click on one or the other.
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
We're going to try adjusting the suggested levels list to x500 feet for VFR flights in the coming release, and look carefully for any pushback. IFR flights will keep the x000 feet suggestions, and mixed will give both.
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
+xWe're going to try adjusting the suggested levels list to x500 feet for VFR flights in the coming release, and look carefully for any pushback. IFR flights will keep the x000 feet suggestions, and mixed will give both. Hallelujah, the rock is moving! 👍
|
|
|
|
|
Michael Sartori
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7,
Visits: 1
|
+xWe're going to try adjusting the suggested levels list to x500 feet for VFR flights in the coming release, and look carefully for any pushback. IFR flights will keep the x000 feet suggestions, and mixed will give both. hi Tim, thanks a lot for realizing this feature, I appreciate
|
|
|
|
|
Hetzenauer
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 32,
Visits: 15
|
Tested this in latest beta. Works like a charm now, thx a lot & have a nice weekend!
Best, Björn
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Branderhorst
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 36,
Visits: 20
|
Another alitude... Till now I was fighting to get the good (low) altitude I wanted to have for the whole flight.. My home base is located well under the Schiphol TMA (starts in general at 1500'). Any VFR flying will be done at 1200-1400, the last one for daredevils who can fly manually within 100' for an hour while doing all the VFR stuff in XX turbulence. Lately, SPL takes up any incursion, like 1600' in the TMA as a serious one. The time comes when they will start fines with serious amounts, 'çause they're fed up. Till now I set like 1200' manually in the radar display, leg by leg, which is cumbersome, till I now found out, it CAN be done in the aircraft profile! A place I would normally NOT turn to. Why not have in Flight details the Cruising level altitude select page option a possibility to select something like A1200 to force the system to use that iso levels?
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
In the menu Route - Flight Details - Cruising Level you can type every altitude you like. This value will be used as initial value for all legs.
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Branderhorst
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 36,
Visits: 20
|
+xIn the menu Route - Flight Details - Cruising Level you can type every altitude you like. This value will be used as initial value for all legs. Gerhard, I don't get it, so many times I tried, now suddenly it does. After typing it previously , it did not change the level. Maybe there's a crack in my brains 
|
|
|
|
|
Gerhard66
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 172,
Visits: 358
|
So keep Fingers crossed that it will continue to work. 😉
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Your flight has an "overall" level, set in the Flight Details page as documented above.
Each leg can also have its own individually-specified level. If you've already specified a level for each leg individually, the overall level will make no difference.
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Branderhorst
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 36,
Visits: 20
|
Here we go again. I video'd the problem, but I can't upload it. It bluntly refuses to change altitude.
|
|
|
|
|
Fabrizio Albonico
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 39,
Visits: 51
|
+xHere we go again. I video'd the problem, but I can't upload it. It bluntly refuses to change altitude. Having been there myself, I just share my workflow here in the hope it helps Richard and other people struggling. Start planning from scratch Define T/O and Landing point Go to Flight Details, set "Cruise Level" and see it change for the leg Drag/select/enter all waypoints, change altitude of each leg according to rules/terrain/personal preferences
As Tim correctly pointed out, if you select a level or drag a leg on the virtual radar to change it, the overall "Cruise level" set in Flight Details will be ignored. Hope this helps - all the best
-- LSZA based DA40 / SR20 / S22T / PIVI / TWEN
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Richard, please read my last post.
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Branderhorst
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 36,
Visits: 20
|
Fabrizio, tks. So You say that setting the altitude is only possible when setting up the route, right at the beginning. I have a lot of times that I want to change the general altitude in an already existing route, due to cloud base or wind direction/force, like on the day of the flight, I prepared a few day before. Or change the airplane used, which has another default level in its properties. Changing the general altitude should not be such an unfriendly feature, the change of altitude should always work via "flight details".
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Richard, it does work. It works fine, and it has worked fine for tens of thousands of users over the fifteen years that SkyDemon has been offering vertical route planning. If you're struggling, give us a call, and someone will talk you through it.
|
|
|
|