I don't think there is a new procedure in place, on the part of DFS. However we strongly made our position clear to them before, that the situation was ridiculous. I am not aware of such a situation occurring again, so hopefully that means they've stopped doing it.

Hi everyone,

has anything come out of this?

@Tim: Has anything come out of your negotiations with DFS/Eisenschmidt? I feel uneasy flying around without a positive info on the AIP SUPs, but was hoping I could avoid buying another subscription to nearly the same data again, this time from DFS...

Hiding information that potentially leads to being charged with a criminal offence (not even an „Ordnungswidrigkeit“) behind a subscription paywall is totally absurd (on the DFS/BAF part, not SkyDemon...)

I think it is important that the authorities are fed back the reaction of the GA public in reponse to their actions. In this, companies like SD play a vital role. Thank you, Tim, for not shirking this task and foe engaging in a constructive dialog.

-- Chris.

We have managed to get a NOTAM in place for the area so it'll appear on everybody's SkyDemon charts. A more permanent solution is under discussion between ourselves and DFS/Eisenschmidt.

They admit that the current solution where to be notified of the restricted area you need to purchase the VFR AIP does not make sense.‌

Easy-VFR has solve the problem now:

Gerhard, stop trying to blame SkyDemon for the unfortunate state of affairs in Germany. If SkyDemon is genuinely of no help to you, feel free to go back to your paper chart as you allude to.

Now, on a more constructive note. I am having a dialog with DFS/Eisenschmidt about this issue. I was under the impression that all SUPs were provided free of charge to pilots flying in Germany, because they agreed with me that would be the case a number of years ago. It seems that is no longer the case, or at least they haven't published this one. We therefore have the ridiculous situation where there's a restriction which isn't published anywhere publicly, so most pilots cannot possibly know about it.

That isn't SkyDemon's fault but we are trying to get them to do something about it. Certainly there should be a NOTAM in pla‌ce for the duration of any temporary restriction; that is what they are for.‌ ‌‌

Let me try to resume the facts:

1. there is relevant and important information published solely in the SUP section of AIP.
(Examples: Salzburg and Mülheim)

2. SD does not care about this information. In other words, SD does not integrate this information in its charts.

3. Instead, SD requires it's customers to read the AIP SUP and keep the airspace information in mind or in complicated cases on a paper printout.
So, what's the advantage of SD compared to paper charts and VOR navigation a decade ago?

4. Customers pay SD for it's so-called "German VFR AIP", but they get only a part of it!
The VFR SUP section is missing.

Regards
Gerhard

I‘m no expert but I don‘t think NOTAMS can only be visible for 14 days... There is a NOTAM for my home airfield EDKB about rabbit holes on the gras runway that is in the system since 2006!

Notams are only 14 days visible. If the restriction are longer activ, you can see it only in the SUP.
I think, its like this in the whole ICAO universe...

Chris