ED-R Mülheim-Kärlich

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ED-R Mülheim-Kärlich

Author	Message
Gerhard66	G Gerhard66 posted 10/9/2017 8:00:03 PM Post Details Share Post
G Group: Forum Members Posts: 168, Visits: 355	Could you please publish the link to the free AIP VFR SUP at Eisenschmidt website. I couldn't find it either.
	Reply Like 49
Chris_LSZO	Chris_LSZO posted 10/9/2017 8:07:10 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 107, Visits: 149	+x JanR - 10/9/2017 7:57:26 PM +x Tim Dawson - 10/9/2017 11:01:15 AM VFR AIP SUP are available for free on the Eisenschmidt website. Using SkyDemon does not absolve anybody of the requirement to check relevant SUPs in a country where SUPs need to be checked prior to flight. Check local regulations for this. ‌ SUPs are not a part of the permanent AIP and should not really be used to introduce ‌airspace changes without a corresponding NOTAM, so that pilots know to actually look at the SUPs. It is unfortunate if Germany have not published a NOTAM to inform pilots about the presence of the SUP but we (at SkyDemon) cannot do this for you. It seems that there is an expectation on this thread that we would look at SUPs in order to make changes to our charts, as the SUPs come and go. Since SUPs are published and withdrawn at any time, without reference to the AIRAC cycle, that is not easily achieved. You won't find them on your paper charts either. Tim, For me it would be enough to have the VFR SUPs available in SD. Of course one could/should/must check other sources, but one major advantage of SD is that it integrates so many functions and information in one application. At the moment, the guys from Easy-VFR work out a solution for this problem‌. If they can do it, Skydemon can do it for sure too... Chris‌‌
	Reply Like 51
Chris_LSZO	Chris_LSZO posted 10/9/2017 8:13:36 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 107, Visits: 149	+x Gerhard66 - 10/9/2017 8:00:03 PM Could you please publish the link to the free AIP VFR SUP at Eisenschmidt website.I couldn't find it either. +1. I has try it in different ways. Chris‌‌
	Reply Like 50
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 10/10/2017 10:22:10 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8K, Visits: 9.1K	I've asked them to provide a link, and I will also ask them to explain why there's no NOTAM for the restriction.
	Reply Like 46
Chris_LSZO	Chris_LSZO posted 10/10/2017 7:54:15 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 107, Visits: 149	Notams are only 14 days visible. If the restriction are longer activ, you can see it only in the SUP. I think, its like this in the whole ICAO universe... Chris
	Reply Like 48
FlorianK	F FlorianK posted 10/10/2017 9:03:14 PM Post Details Share Post
F Group: Forum Members Posts: 9, Visits: 18	I‘m no expert but I don‘t think NOTAMS can only be visible for 14 days... There is a NOTAM for my home airfield EDKB about rabbit holes on the gras runway that is in the system since 2006!
	Reply Like 29
Gerhard66	G Gerhard66 posted 10/11/2017 6:48:51 AM Post Details Share Post
G Group: Forum Members Posts: 168, Visits: 355	Let me try to resume the facts: 1. there is relevant and important information published solely in the SUP section of AIP. (Examples: Salzburg and Mülheim) 2. SD does not care about this information. In other words, SD does not integrate this information in its charts. 3. Instead, SD requires it's customers to read the AIP SUP and keep the airspace information in mind or in complicated cases on a paper printout. So, what's the advantage of SD compared to paper charts and VOR navigation a decade ago? 4. Customers pay SD for it's so-called "German VFR AIP", but they get only a part of it! The VFR SUP section is missing. Regards Gerhard
	Reply Like 43
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 10/11/2017 2:46:18 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8K, Visits: 9.1K	Gerhard, stop trying to blame SkyDemon for the unfortunate state of affairs in Germany. If SkyDemon is genuinely of no help to you, feel free to go back to your paper chart as you allude to. Now, on a more constructive note. I am having a dialog with DFS/Eisenschmidt about this issue. I was under the impression that all SUPs were provided free of charge to pilots flying in Germany, because they agreed with me that would be the case a number of years ago. It seems that is no longer the case, or at least they haven't published this one. We therefore have the ridiculous situation where there's a restriction which isn't published anywhere publicly, so most pilots cannot possibly know about it. That isn't SkyDemon's fault but we are trying to get them to do something about it. Certainly there should be a NOTAM in pla‌ce for the duration of any temporary restriction; that is what they are for.‌ ‌‌
	Reply Like 36
Chris_LSZO	Chris_LSZO posted 10/11/2017 6:18:30 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 107, Visits: 149	Easy-VFR has solve the problem now:
	Reply Like 47
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 10/12/2017 10:26:21 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8K, Visits: 9.1K	That isn't really solving the problem, Chris, and it isn't particularly helpful posting that here. The problem is one of data origination by the German authorities, and the best way to solve the problem is to actually solve it, not attempt to disguise it. This may be slightly more difficult in the short term but in the long term it will ensure that something like this never occurs again, a situation where a restricted area is published in secret so nobody actually knows about it.
	Reply Like 26