Aerobatics zones are not visible on French charts?

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Aerobatics zones are not visible on French charts?

Aerobatics zones are not visible on French charts?

Author	Message
Xavier-FR	X Xavier-FR posted 2/12/2017 4:05:07 PM Topic Details Share Topic
X Group: Forum Members Posts: 4, Visits: 0	Hello! I do not see any ae‌robatics zones neither during the flight preparation not during the flight. I can see the parachute dropzones and the glider zones but nothing about aerobatics zones. Is it the same for you? Than‌‌ks, Xavier‌
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Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 2/13/2017 3:55:41 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 7.8K, Visits: 8.4K	Can you give some examples of specific zones that you would expect to see? Ideally with a photo of a paper chart which displays the zones.
	Reply Like 59
Tony N	Tony N posted 2/16/2017 8:52:41 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 326, Visits: 2.3K	Here you are. Three east of St Omer. I think each one has its own unique ID number. Tony‌‌ Attachments FR aerobatic area depiction.doc (412 views, 2.00 MB)
	Reply Like 54
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 2/16/2017 10:38:01 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 7.8K, Visits: 8.4K	Thanks. I will pass this along to my colleague and we will discuss whether these are items we may want to add to SkyDemon charting.
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Xavier-FR	X Xavier-FR posted 2/19/2017 10:17:28 PM Post Details Share Post
X Group: Forum Members Posts: 4, Visits: 0	Thanks for your replies! I was flying near to Paris 2 weeks ago and during this flight, the ATC asked me to avoid one of these zones because some aerobatic activities were reported but the zone was not visible on my iPad. I took my IGN chart and have been able to avoid the zone securely. I really think these zones must appear on the Skydemon's chart to prepare efficiently the flights. Here is another example but there are hundreds of this kind of areas in France. IGN Chart: ‌‌ ‌D‌etails we can find in the SIA documentation: ‌On the Skyd‌‌emon chart we can see the zone is missing: ‌‌
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Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 2/21/2017 12:14:53 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 7.8K, Visits: 8.4K	My colleague has investigated this and we now recall that the way these are presented in AIP France is complicated and not conducive to easy representation on our charts. Here's an example: 50°42'32"N, 002°29'17"E Située RDL 313°/8 NM LFQT Axe orienté 135°/315°, verticaleRD138 Longueur 3000m centré sur le point 50°42'32"N,002°29'17"E 50°44'37"N , 002°58'13"E Axe 050°/230° (RD945), longueur1600m However, I note that on the paper chart examples you gave they don't seem to be represented in a complex way, in fact they just appear to be symbols. Perhaps just the first coordinate of each entry in AIP France ENR 5.5 is used to place a symbol, would you say that was correct?‌‌
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Xavier-FR	X Xavier-FR posted 2/21/2017 9:49:03 PM Post Details Share Post
X Group: Forum Members Posts: 4, Visits: 0	+x Tim Dawson - 2/21/2017 12:14:53 PM My colleague has investigated this and we now recall that the way these are presented in AIP France is complicated and not conducive to easy representation on our charts. Here's an example: 50°42'32"N, 002°29'17"E Située RDL 313°/8 NM LFQT Axe orienté 135°/315°, verticaleRD138 Longueur 3000m centré sur le point 50°42'32"N,002°29'17"E 50°44'37"N , 002°58'13"E Axe 050°/230° (RD945), longueur1600m However, I note that on the paper chart examples you gave they don't seem to be represented in a complex way, in fact they just appear to be symbols. Perhaps just the first coordinate of each entry in AIP France ENR 5.5 is used to place a symbol, would you say that was correct?‌‌ Perhaps. I would say the symbols are big enough (they always have the same size) on the charts to cover large zones without exact limits. If necesary, pilots can find all the details in the dedicated manual using the reference codes near to the symbols but the most important is that we are aware of the zones during the flight preparations and we can locate them when the ATC asks us to avoid one of those zones in flight. ‌It is similar to the parachute dropzones: most of the time we simply avoid the zones for safety and if we really have to go through, we check the book and/or ATC.
	Reply Like 51
Tony N	Tony N posted 2/22/2017 8:32:44 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 326, Visits: 2.3K	I suggest the same solution you used to indicate the French "do not fly over" areas that are depicted on the charts as small red squares. Probably a simple symbol that looks similar to what the French use to depict the aerobatic areas would suffice. Tony‌‌‌
	Reply Like 51