Natural Protected Areas Austria

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Natural Protected Areas Austria

Author	Message
Chris_LSZO	Chris_LSZO posted 5/16/2017 10:28:17 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 107, Visits: 149	+x Tim Dawson - 9/24/2015 10:26:21 AM Their reply, as promised. Thank you for your questions concerning national parks in Austria! This question is asked by customers many times and I hope I can clarify the situation for you. First of all national parks do exist in Austria. They are regulated by law on the administrative level of Austrian provinces. So you would have to check the law of the 9 provinces of Austria. In contrast aeronautical facts are issued by the federal government of Austria. So in 2009 the federal government of Austria (CAA) asked all provinces to state their needs concerning the definition of these areas for aeronautical purposes and instructed Austro Control to remove the information from all official aeronautical publications. Since then the governments of the provinces were asked several times (as far as I know) to state their needs so they can be reflected in Austrain federal law and continuative be published in a way used in international aviation (e.g. IAIP). Currently the restricted areas LO R 16 and LO R 18 are the only areas that are published because of environmental reasons although there is no national park defined. The Austrian federal law concerning airspace issues is usually amended once a year but until the provinces do not provide the information to the federal government this information is not published and is missing in all official products. The Austrian AeroClub is aware of the situation too and maybe they can provide you with more details concerning this topic. We know that for the user/pilot this situation is disadvantageous but Austro Control has to follow the instructions of the CAA of Austria. Just for Info: At Easy VFR ‌the protected areas are visible with the right dimensions and heights (16500 ft MSL)... ‌ In my opinion Skydemon have to do it too, its very ‌expensive to fly into them!!! Chris‌‌ Edited 5/16/2017 10:28:17 AM by Chris_LSZO
	Reply Like 39
Oliver Voigt	Oliver Voigt posted 9/28/2015 9:15:13 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 28, Visits: 150	Hallo Chris, for that letter you get my high respect!! I live in Bavaria and i was a little familiar with that rules. Certainly, that situation was not so fine and less helpfully. Maybe Skydemon has the power (with thousand of licenses and pilots in the background) to found a solution in cooperation with Austrocontol to avoid airspace-injuries in the future! Great thanks for that words!
	Reply Like 62
ckurz7000	ckurz7000 posted 9/28/2015 8:39:15 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 538, Visits: 2.2K	Being native Austrian I can attest to the confusing situation with natural reserves in Austria vis-a-vis general aviation. What you have to keep in mind is that Austria is different. Being to the south and east of Germany, we have evolved a life style somewhere in the middle between the right/wrong, white/black and total laissez faire. The stereotypical Austrian has learned to live with various shades of grey and abhors absolutes of black and white. This is neither good nor bad, simply different. It shows in this kind of regulation. Nothing is really clear, it is all more or less left to the descretion of the individual pilot. Everybody is afraid that someone might actually upset this fragile truce between various authorities and the general public. It works as long as nobody looks too closely and doesn't try to pin things down. I apologize to all Austrians I might have offended. But, being one myself, I feel entitled to this post. And what's even more, one can actually learn to like it...to a degree... -- Chris.
	Reply Like 53
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 9/25/2015 9:26:40 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8.1K, Visits: 9.2K	I am still following this up. Austrocontrol referred us to the Federal Ministry of Transport, Innovation and Technology who confirmed the email above. They have further referred me to the Aeroclub. What seems very clear is that legally, there is no requirement to avoid the national parks. What is also clear is that this is not clear to a lot of people, and various other chart producers have elected to include their boundaries in their charts so presumably pilots can make up their own minds.
	Reply Like 51
Easy Cruising	Easy Cruising posted 9/24/2015 11:20:59 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 50, Visits: 39	Sounds like they want us to avoid certain areas but cannot define exactly what those areas are so that we actually can avoid them ! Once defined, these areas will presumably show up in the AIP at some point and then get included in SD. Hilarious that Austrocontrol refers us to the Austrian AeroClub.
	Reply Like 67
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 9/24/2015 10:26:21 AM ANSWER Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8.1K, Visits: 9.2K	Their reply, as promised. Thank you for your questions concerning national parks in Austria! This question is asked by customers many times and I hope I can clarify the situation for you. First of all national parks do exist in Austria. They are regulated by law on the administrative level of Austrian provinces. So you would have to check the law of the 9 provinces of Austria. In contrast aeronautical facts are issued by the federal government of Austria. So in 2009 the federal government of Austria (CAA) asked all provinces to state their needs concerning the definition of these areas for aeronautical purposes and instructed Austro Control to remove the information from all official aeronautical publications. Since then the governments of the provinces were asked several times (as far as I know) to state their needs so they can be reflected in Austrain federal law and continuative be published in a way used in international aviation (e.g. IAIP). Currently the restricted areas LO R 16 and LO R 18 are the only areas that are published because of environmental reasons although there is no national park defined. The Austrian federal law concerning airspace issues is usually amended once a year but until the provinces do not provide the information to the federal government this information is not published and is missing in all official products. The Austrian AeroClub is aware of the situation too and maybe they can provide you with more details concerning this topic. We know that for the user/pilot this situation is disadvantageous but Austro Control has to follow the instructions of the CAA of Austria.
	Reply Like 70
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 9/24/2015 10:09:19 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8.1K, Visits: 9.2K	I certainly will.
	Reply Like 65
ckurz7000	ckurz7000 posted 9/24/2015 8:42:12 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 538, Visits: 2.2K	It would be great if you could post back any information you receive from Austrocontrol. Thanks, -- Chris.
	Reply Like 57
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 9/23/2015 2:45:11 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8.1K, Visits: 9.2K	Good idea. Email sent.
	Reply Like 64
ckurz7000	ckurz7000 posted 9/23/2015 1:38:00 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 538, Visits: 2.2K	Hi Tim, it is interesting to note that there are state regulations in force specifying the kind of restriction imposed on various natural reserve areas. One of the attachements is a publicly promulgated document by a general aviation lawyer in which he analysed the current legal situation and deduces a rather confusing and incoherent picture of what is allowed where. If there is nothing in the relevant AIP section then there is nothing for SD to act upon. However, maybe a communication with Austrocontrol requesting a comment on that matter would help to clarify the situation. Thankd, -- Chris.
	Reply Like 76