By Chris_LSZO - 5/16/2017 10:28:17 AM
+xTheir reply, as promised. Thank you for your questions concerning national parks in Austria!
This question is asked by customers many times and I hope I can clarify the situation for you. First of all national parks do exist in Austria. They are regulated by law on the administrative level of Austrian provinces. So you would have to check the law of the 9 provinces of Austria.
In contrast aeronautical facts are issued by the federal government of Austria. So in 2009 the federal government of Austria (CAA) asked all provinces to state their needs concerning the definition of these areas for aeronautical purposes and instructed Austro Control to remove the information from all official aeronautical publications.
Since then the governments of the provinces were asked several times (as far as I know) to state their needs so they can be reflected in Austrain federal law and continuative be published in a way used in international aviation (e.g. IAIP). Currently the restricted areas LO R 16 and LO R 18 are the only areas that are published because of environmental reasons although there is no national park defined. The Austrian federal law concerning airspace issues is usually amended once a year but until the provinces do not provide the information to the federal government this information is not published and is missing in all official products. The Austrian AeroClub is aware of the situation too and maybe they can provide you with more details concerning this topic. We know that for the user/pilot this situation is disadvantageous but Austro Control has to follow the instructions of the CAA of Austria.
At Easy VFR the protected areas are visible with the right dimensions and heights (16500 ft MSL)...
In my opinion Skydemon have to do it too, its very expensive to fly into them!!!
Chris
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By Tim Dawson - 5/16/2017 12:40:46 PM
We added them years ago, Chris.
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By Chris_LSZO - 5/16/2017 1:05:12 PM
+xWe added them years ago, Chris.
Chris
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By Tim Dawson - 5/16/2017 1:59:07 PM
Thank you for clarifying your point. Could you say why you think the limits we show are incorrect?
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By Chris_LSZO - 5/16/2017 3:01:21 PM
+xThank you for clarifying your point. Could you say why you think the limits we show are incorrect? +xIts the same like in 2015. http://forums.skydemon.aero/FindPost17169.aspxThe first linked PDF show the min. heights at every protected area (example "Hohe Tauern"= 5000m MSL). I know, its not written in the AIP, but it doesn't matter, you have to pay, if you fly in without permission. Chris |
By Tim Dawson - 5/17/2017 2:23:52 PM
So the rumour goes. For a quiet life, I will amend the upper boundaries in our data and see if anyone complains. There remains no legal reason for pilots to avoid the areas at all, though.
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By Gerhard66 - 6/4/2017 5:10:41 PM
Some years ago I used to fly with Jeppesen paper charts. These charts indicated the Hohe Tauern Zone.
One year later, the Zone was not printed any more in the new charts.
I asked Jeppesen and they confirmed the correctness of their charts.
Being aware of alleged really high penalties, I also asked Austro Control in Vienna, if this is just a chart error and if this Zone still exists.
The told me: "If there is no Zone in the chart, there are no restrictions."
In flight, I was curious and asked FIS Vienna. Same answer: Nothing published in AIP - no restrictions.
I guess, there is a reason for this "zone" (maybe, there are eagles or other rare animals that are worth to be protected).
If most pilots avoid the alleged zone, the rumors have fulfilled the intention. Thats the austrian way ;-)
And, I really would like to know if there is somebody who really payed the "high penalties". Up to now, I heard from people, who know somebody who heard from somebody who had to pay...
Nevertheless, south of the zone, LIR49A and LIR49B have radio problems according to notam and getting a clearance is not ensured. As you have to circumnavigate the LIR49 anyway during crossing the alps, the zone can be easily avoided, too.
I for myself try to avoid the zone.
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By Oliver Voigt - 9/22/2015 10:22:56 PM
Wir are missing the Natural Protected Areas in Austria. These areas, especially around Großglockner are not signed in the maps. In these areas an overflight was absolut prohibited under a high penalty. Is there a chance to get these datas in the near future?
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By ckurz7000 - 5/17/2017 2:39:26 PM
+x+xThank you for clarifying your point. Could you say why you think the limits we show are incorrect? +xIts the same like in 2015. http://forums.skydemon.aero/FindPost17169.aspxThe first linked PDF show the min. heights at every protected area (example "Hohe Tauern"= 5000m MSL). I know, its not written in the AIP, but it doesn't matter, you have to pay, if you fly in without permission. Chris It only takes one person to fight this out in court. It will be an easy win because international aviation law supercedes national law in this respect: if it's not in the AIP then you're not supposed to adhere to it. How can the federal state of, say Tyrol, expect some general aviation pilot to check local regulations (which are only available in German and not promulgated in a general accepted form in the aviation community) to adhere to their local regulations??? Austro Control itself has asked the states to name those areas to be included in the AIP. Hitherto they have not received a reply. Case closed. -- Chris. |
By Tim Dawson - 5/17/2017 2:41:12 PM
I'm going to declare that there is a fine for any pilot flying over my house. Apparently it doesn't matter than my fine has no basis in law. Or does this only work in Austria?
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By Oliver Voigt - 5/17/2017 2:47:07 PM
The police may also estimate the speed of the road traffic, legally in front of every Austrian court :-(
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By Chris_LSZO - 5/17/2017 3:24:28 PM
+xSo the rumour goes. For a quiet life, I will amend the upper boundaries in our data and see if anyone complains. There remains no legal reason for pilots to avoid the areas at all, though.
And yes, if one person fight this out in court, he will win (maybe...). But who want to spend so much money for lawyers and all of this? Nobody...
Chris
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