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Natural Protected Areas Austria


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Gerhard66
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Some years ago I used to fly with Jeppesen paper charts. These charts indica‌ted the Hohe Tauern Zone.
One year later‌, the Zone was not printed any more in the new charts.
I asked Jeppes‌en and they confirmed the correctness of their charts.
Being aware of alleged really high penalties, ‌I also asked A‌ustro Control in Vienna, if this is just a chart error and if this Zone still exists.
The told me: "If there is no Zone in the chart, there are no restrictions."
In flight, I was curious and asked FIS Vienna. Same answer: Nothing published in AIP - no restrictions.
‌‌
I g‌uess, there is a reason for this "zone" (maybe, there are eagles or other rare animals that are worth to be protected).
‌If most pilots avoid the alleged zone, the rumors have fulfilled the intention. Thats the austrian way ;-)

And, I really would like to know if there is somebody who really payed the "high penalties". Up to now, I heard from people, who know somebody who heard from somebody who had to pay...

‌‌Nevertheless, south of the zone, LIR49A and‌ LIR49B have radio problems according to notam and getting a clearance is not ensured. As you have to circumnavigate the LIR49 anyway during crossing the alps, the zone can be easily avoided, too.

‌I for myself try to avoid the zone.


Edited 6/4/2017 5:10:41 PM by Gerhard66
Chris_LSZO
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Tim Dawson - 5/17/2017 2:23:52 PM
So the rumour goes. For a quiet life, I will amend the upper boundaries in our data and see if anyone complains. There remains no legal reason for pilots to avoid the areas at all, though.


Excellent Tim. Thanks a lot.
And yes, if one person fight this out in court, he will win (maybe...). But who want to spend so much money for lawyers and all of this? Nobody...

Chris‌‌

Oliver Voigt
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The police may also estimate the speed of the road traffic, legally in front of every Austrian court :-(
Tim Dawson
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I'm going to declare that there is a fine for any pilot flying over my house. Apparently it doesn't matter than my fine has no basis in law. Or does this only work in Austria?
ckurz7000
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Chris_LSZO - 5/16/2017 3:01:21 PM
Tim Dawson - 5/16/2017 1:59:07 PM
Thank you for clarifying your point. Could you say why you think the limits we show are incorrect?

Its the same like in 2015.
http://forums.skydemon.aero/FindPost17169.aspx
The first linked PDF show the min. heights at every protected area (example "Hohe Tauern"= 5000m MSL).
I know, its not written in the AIP, but it doesn't matter, you have to pay, if you fly in without permission.

Chris‌‌

It only takes one person to fight this out in court. It will be an easy win because international aviation law supercedes national law in this respect: if it's not in the AIP then you're not supposed to adhere to it. How can the federal state of, say Tyrol, expect some general aviation pilot to check local regulations (which are only available in German and not promulgated in a general accepted form in the aviation community) to adhere to their local regulations???

Austro Control itself has asked the states to  name those areas to be included in the AIP. Hitherto they have not received a reply. Case closed.

-- Chris.‌‌

Tim Dawson
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So the rumour goes. For a quiet life, I will amend the upper boundaries in our data and see if anyone complains. There remains no legal reason for pilots to avoid the areas at all, though.
Chris_LSZO
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Tim Dawson - 5/16/2017 1:59:07 PM
Thank you for clarifying your point. Could you say why you think the limits we show are incorrect?

Its the same like in 2015.
http://forums.skydemon.aero/FindPost17169.aspx
The first linked PDF show the min. heights at every protected area (example "Hohe Tauern"= 5000m MSL).
I know, its not written in the AIP, but it doesn't matter, you have to pay, if you fly in without permission.

Chris‌‌

Edited 5/16/2017 3:01:21 PM by Chris_LSZO
Tim Dawson
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Thank you for clarifying your point. Could you say why you think the limits we show are incorrect?
Chris_LSZO
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Tim Dawson - 5/16/2017 12:40:46 PM
We added them years ago, Chris.


Yes, its added but with the wrong altitude (1500ft AGL)...

Chris‌

Tim Dawson
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We added them years ago, Chris.
GO

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