|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
Hello, In Italy, as you know, we have a cluttered situations.....and to get rid of traffic, sometime, we need to fly higher inside the CTA above the Golf area and we need to know the frequency of the responsible "Control".
Could you insert these freq on the "details" of each CTA so when I tap on the map I see the "vertical limits" and I can read next to the "Ident" the freq to contact ?
Regarding the FMC, you already answer to me, but recently we have discuss this issue with others pilots and we need to see the boundary of these area when we tap on the screen.
The information on the "Flight Plan" is not sufficient.
Is possible to include on the "Navigation or Planning Options" or in the Map Filters the option "FMC Yes or No" as for others airspace ? like "Class E", "Mil ATZ" or "Other Local Airspace" ?
The FMC area are only 1 in the Roma Fir, 4 on the Milano FIR, is really a problem for you to depict these area so the boundary will appear with the info when we tap the screen ?
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Normally we associated a frequency with a piece of controlled airspace when the AIP lists one. Looking at AIP Italy, it does not do this, which is likely the reason they are not shown. For example, Padova CTA simply lists Padova ACC as the controlling authority, but there are many different frequencies listed for Padova ACC.
In regards to the FMC question, we currently cannot show the areas unless they are TMZs. I do not believe they are TMZs so at present there isn't an option to show them.
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xNormally we associated a frequency with a piece of controlled airspace when the AIP lists one. Looking at AIP Italy, it does not do this, which is likely the reason they are not shown. For example, Padova CTA simply lists Padova ACC as the controlling authority, but there are many different frequencies listed for Padova ACC.
In regards to the FMC question, we currently cannot show the areas unless they are TMZs. I do not believe they are TMZs so at present there isn't an option to show them. OK for the freq of the CTA, I agree.
Regarding the TMZ, all the FIR in Italy are TMZ, the FMC area is G class and TMZ. Outside the FMC area the squawk is 7000 and compulsory, but FIS contact not. The only difference between G and G/FMC is the Squawk code, if you do not desire to call the FIS that code represent: <I'm listening you, at the moment I do not need any informations, but if you need me, call me>. That's why we need to see these area on the map. This is typical for VFR and ULM that stay away congested area, do not need a clearance or chatting to a busy FIC/FIS.
|
|
|
|
|
Bon
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xNormally we associated a frequency with a piece of controlled airspace when the AIP lists one. Looking at AIP Italy, it does not do this, which is likely the reason they are not shown. For example, Padova CTA simply lists Padova ACC as the controlling authority, but there are many different frequencies listed for Padova ACC.
In regards to the FMC question, we currently cannot show the areas unless they are TMZs. I do not believe they are TMZs so at present there isn't an option to show them. OK for the freq of the CTA, I agree.
Regarding the TMZ, all the FIR in Italy are TMZ, the FMC area is G class and TMZ. Outside the FMC area the squawk is 7000 and compulsory, but FIS contact not. The only difference between G and G/FMC is the Squawk code, if you do not desire to call the FIS that code represent: <I'm listening you, at the moment I do not need any informations, but if you need me, call me>. That's why we need to see these area on the map. This is typical for VFR and ULM that stay away congested area, do not need a clearance or chatting to a busy FIC/FIS.
Regarding the FMC area, I remember that a few months ago it was possible to tap the map and to see the FMC with the yellow border. This was very helpfull for a planning.
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Hmm. If the whole of Italy is a TMZ, then perhaps we _could_ display the FMC areas as visible TMZs on our chart without confusing anyone. What do you think?
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xHmm. If the whole of Italy is a TMZ, then perhaps we _could_ display the FMC areas as visible TMZs on our chart without confusing anyone. What do you think? Maybe could confuse some foregners not familiar with FMC.....or some pilots will think that only the FMC are TMZ on spite that whole Italy is TMZ. I rather prefer to show the FMC as before; I would like that when you tap on that particular area, the boundary of the FMC (if possible on orange so to be different from yellow CTR), will appear around the area. Eventually, if is possible, could you create a filter "Yes / No", for the FMC, like for "E Class" or "Other Local Airspace" ?
regards, Gianni
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
You say "as before" but I do not believe we have ever shown FMC areas on the map. Nor have we shown them in the What's Here menu, or do you think that is not the case?
We cannot add an option to the Mapping menu for a special kind of area that only exists in Italy, and even in Italy there are only a few of them. We will think about possible solutions.
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xYou say "as before" but I do not believe we have ever shown FMC areas on the map. Nor have we shown them in the What's Here menu, or do you think that is not the case?
We cannot add an option to the Mapping menu for a special kind of area that only exists in Italy, and even in Italy there are only a few of them. We will think about possible solutions. Tim, I say "as before" because BON said that on a previous message. On 6/25/2018: http://forums.skydemon.aero/FindPost26302.aspx you write: We have FMC areas for many countries, including Italy as of the last update, but they are not designed to be permanently shown on the map because they introduce clutter for no real benefit. In flight they are shown in the Radio tab, during the planning stage they're shown in your PLOG.So they do not exist only in Italy ! They are designed permanently (at least since 2018) and if I can see their boundaries on the map is really a benefit ! The FMC are much bigger areas than Parks in the mountain area, and for all pilots it is more important to see where they are during flight to respect AIP instructions. They must change the squawk and watch a special freq. in case the ATC will call them. I leave to you to find a solution as long as it will be depicted on the maps.
regards, Gianni
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
The trouble is, the Italian ones do not work the same as other ones. We have them in the UK but they overlap and are a big mess, because of the way they're designed by the authorities and the way they are typically used. They are not suitable for displaying on a map of any kind. We have them in Germany but they are clearly-defined TMZs which are designed for display on a map.
At present we don't yet have a mapping solution for them in Italy but we are thinking about it.
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Ok, we're going to try something in next week's chart update. The FMC areas will appear on the chart. Depending on what people think of it, we will either keep the new way or revert to the old way.
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xOk, we're going to try something in next week's chart update. The FMC areas will appear on the chart. Depending on what people think of it, we will either keep the new way or revert to the old way. I thought that since the FMC zones are from SFC down to the lower vertical limit of the overflight controlled airspace, they might be similar to SFC CTR instead of pale pink, with a different pale color.
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xOk, we're going to try something in next week's chart update. The FMC areas will appear on the chart. Depending on what people think of it, we will either keep the new way or revert to the old way. From 15/07/2021 on the New AIRAC n.6 , we have new freq and new FMC area on Milano FIR..... Look foward to see the update, regards, Gianni
This is new FMC Milano .  This is new FMC Padova
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xOk, we're going to try something in next week's chart update. The FMC areas will appear on the chart. Depending on what people think of it, we will either keep the new way or revert to the old way. Tim, today I saw the FMC maps, but there is a mistake: Is written as information: "Surface - FL195" . Is not correct, please read that on the top of each map, are clearly indicated the vertical limits:
Maybe is not good English but meaning for upper limit is: lower vertical limit of the above controlled airspace
Please correct at your convenience,
best regards,
Gianni
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Gianni, we need a specific upper limit in SkyDemon for pieces of airspace, we cannot just write "lower vertical limit of above controlled airspace". We could potentially add a note, but we will wait and see.
We will either include the zones as they are, or remove them completely, depending on what people think of how we've done them.
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xGianni, we need a specific upper limit in SkyDemon for pieces of airspace, we cannot just write "lower vertical limit of above controlled airspace". We could potentially add a note, but we will wait and see.
We will either include the zones as they are, or remove them completely, depending on what people think of how we've done them. Consider that there is no FMC area with un upper limit of FL195. Reduce this limit for the "Automatic decluttering" as follow: Padova 5000 is an average that should work, Milano North West is under the TMA and CTA that are A class so 2500 is not exact but is acceptable, Milano North East again is under the TMA so same limits, Milano North is under CTA class D so 125 should be Ok, Roma (Sardinia) you can limit at 2500 since nobody care about FMC in that area. But write, this is important, on "What's Here" when you tap on the screen : "Surface - Upper limit: lower vertical limit of above controlled airspace" and not "Surface - FL 195" because this is totally false. Pilots will understand.....the important is to see the area on the map. Is my suggestion....better than nothing and at least pilot can have an idea of the upper limits and where the FMC lateral limits are. I leave up to you to decide the best.
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Dawson
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 9.5K
|
Did you mean 125 when you said Milano North? I will talk to my colleague about what we can do here.
|
|
|
|
|
giannisd
|
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
Visits: 173
|
+xDid you mean 125 when you said Milano North? I will talk to my colleague about what we can do here. Yes the CTA base above is FL 125, only a small area on the south of that FMC Milano North near the TMA is lower, but is known to everybody. Look forward to see the results, ciao, Gianni
|
|
|
|