ED-R150, NVFR-Routes

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ED-R150, NVFR-Routes

Author	Message
Telefisch	T Telefisch posted 11/22/2017 2:04:27 PM HOT Topic Details Share Topic
T Group: Forum Members Posts: 6, Visits: 0	Hi Forum, t‌oday I planned to start a trip at night and in the NOTAMS I saw several messages about restricted area 150. I‌ could not find this area in the german charts. This should be ED-R for military night flights so it would not be fun to fly in there. H‌ow can I be sure not to fly into these ED-Rs? .‌..and why couldn't I find any ED-R by searching with STRG+F ?‌‌ Edited 11/22/2017 2:04:27 PM by Telefisch
	Reply Like 35
Hetzenauer	H Hetzenauer posted 1/4/2018 7:03:16 PM Post Details Share Post
H Group: Forum Members Posts: 32, Visits: 15	Well, I think not displaying an activated restricted area is quite sad for a software that started as an aid for pilots to avoid flying into any airspaces unintentionally. I heared a lot of German pilots complaining about it since any violation will be punished as a criminal offense. The developers might do well by rethinking their ignoring policy here. My 2 cents... Björn
	Reply Like 29
Hetzenauer	H Hetzenauer posted 1/6/2018 8:50:18 PM Post Details Share Post
H Group: Forum Members Posts: 32, Visits: 15	May I ask whether you‘re affiliated or connected to SD? Or do you share my request? I cannot agree SD would be useless for night flying in Germany - in contrary it is a quite powerful tool if you think of approach plates, easy frequency finding and IFR waypoints etc. I simply ask for the possibility to see the ED-R on the chart, maybe manually enabled as kind of an overlay or something. Needs not to be synced to activation times. I believe it‘s important for the dev‘s to know about their customer‘s needs... See you up there, Björn
	Reply Like 30
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 4/4/2018 12:22:22 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8K, Visits: 9K	We are a small step closer to having this information in SkyDemon. Behind the scenes we now have a flag for airspace which sets its applicability to "night only" and will therefore soon implement a switch to see airspaces which are only applicable at night. We plan to set this for the new LANTA restricted areas in Germany. EDR‌150 is different though, in that unfortunately its coordinates are not well-defined. It is defined as a document with lots of coordinates but they are ambiguous as to how exactly they're connected, with lots of room for interpretation. We are attempting to get official coordinates for the areas because this document is not fit for purpose. I will report back here with any results.‌
	Reply Like 54
Hetzenauer	H Hetzenauer posted 4/4/2018 1:21:41 PM Post Details Share Post
H Group: Forum Members Posts: 32, Visits: 15	Great news, thank you for your efforts! Take your time Sir, my next night flight will be in October... ;-) Greets, Björn
	Reply Like 58
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 4/10/2018 2:10:54 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8K, Visits: 9K	The official response is below. At this stage, we will therefore not be attempting to add EDR150 into SkyDemon. "The external boundary of the current ED-R 150 is defined by almost 600 overlaying air space corridors. This kind of definition is not suitable for database usage. At this time, the ED-R 150 in total does only exist as a graphical file and is printed on the respective low level chart. Both, experts from DFS Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH and the German Airforce are preparing a review of the night low level flying system (NLFS). This might include a recalculation. Due to political and juridical regulations for military low level flights this task evolves to be a demanding and time consuming process. Therefore no time frame has been created so far. As a result of this, no ED-R 150 can be published in the EAD within a plannable time frame. In general DFS Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH wants to administer and publish all official air spaces in Germany. It has to be clarified whether exceptions for the ED-R 150 will be possible."
	Reply Like 43
Hetzenauer	H Hetzenauer posted 4/11/2018 8:49:26 AM Post Details Share Post
H Group: Forum Members Posts: 32, Visits: 15	Thanks for posting their answer here, Tim. It seems to be an issue that has to be discussed in the forum of German airspace experts since it involves all small aircraft operations after sunset. I informed them about this matter. Once again thanks for all your efforts! Best, Björn
	Reply Like 59
foolio627	f foolio627 posted 11/15/2021 5:21:28 PM Post Details Share Post
f Group: Forum Members Posts: 2, Visits: 0	Same here ... I'd love to see the NFLS in Skydemon as this in fact will considerably elevate the awareness for these RESTRICTED areas. (No fun entering them by mistake). Any update on this one? Cheers, Florian
	Reply Like 2
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 11/16/2021 9:53:02 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8K, Visits: 9K	I will check with DFS whether they are any closer to agreeing a formal definition for this airspace.
	Reply Like 4
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 11/17/2021 1:28:26 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8K, Visits: 9K	Their response: unfortunately I do not have any news for you. I stressed the issue in the last summer. The MIL colleagues are responsible for the design and the upload of ED-R150 to EAD. Currently the restricted area is (DFS internal) available as DGN-File only and not depictable in a structured database format. A complete redesign has to be done in order to depict this area in a database and the MIL colleagues do not have the resources to do that. And we (DFS) do not have any influence on that. This situation is not satisfying but obviously we have to live with that …
	Reply Like 2