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Paul Mahony
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Hi Tim,
Ever since the latest SD update where the connection to PF was moved from CONNECTIONS to GO FLYING, I can't get my PF Core to connect to SD and I have to revert to Use Location Services and the iPad's internal GPS.
I have checked the PF Core device and get the customary orange LED for 20 seconds and then the steady green LED which tells me that it has booted correctly and is receiving GPS signals. On the iPad wi-fi status icon, it shows that I am connected to the Butterfly Connect.
I have confirmed SETTINGS - CONNECTIVITY - FLARM and when I select GO FLYING - USE FLARM, I get the message: "Please wait while a connection is established to your external device" but after about 10 seconds I always get the message: "Failed to establish a connection with Butterfly Connect."
I have tried it with airplane mode off (wi-fi still selected) and on; I have deleted SD from my iPad and reloaded it; I have reconfigured the PF Core with my USB stick but all to no avail. My iPad is connected to the Butterfly Connect wi-fi and the PF Core is receiving GPS data but it's just not happening on SD and only seems to have started after the last update.
Do you have any suggestions, please?
Paul
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Tim Dawson
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Do you have any access to an Android device? If so, you could try loading the previous version (Apple don't let you do that) from our website to verify if it definitely was a breaking change in the new version. I don't think we actually changed the Flarm code at all, so it would be surprising.
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Paul Mahony
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Hi Tim,
I have tried connecting my friend's iPad running SD to my PF Core and he gets the same result as me. His iPad shows that there is a Wi-Fi connection to the Butterfly Connect but after about ten seconds he gets the same message: "Failed to establish a connection with Butterfly Connect" even though the W-Fi icon is showing a full strength connection to it.
Yesterday, I had another SD user up at Full Sutton airfield try his Android device in my aircraft and he too got the same result although I'm not sure what version of SD he was using. I suspect it was the latest one.
I called Butterfly Avionics in Germany asking them if they had any clues and they said to make sure all the connections/leads were OK. As I'm getting power to my PF Core (the LEDs are all working) and as my iPad is showing connection to the Butterfly W--Fi unit, everything seems to be OK.
I guess I'm just asking if you could make sure that nothing seems to have changed from your end and if that's the case, I suppose I'll have to send it back to Butterfly for them to have a look at.
Are there any other iPad / SD / PF Core users on the forum out there having problems with the latest version of SD or is everything OK?!!
Thanks.
Paul
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Tim Dawson
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I don't think anything changed about the Flarm connection, and we have enough customers out there using SkyDemon with Flarm that I would have thought we'd have heard about it if there were a general problem. We don't actually have a Flarm unit in the office to test with, though. I'd be happy to test yours if you wanted to send it to us, but it might be just as easy for you to send it to Butterfly.
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Aubrey Dawson
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I'm having exactly the same issue so it's not a problem with the PowerFlarm unit. My iPad mini connected to PF perfectly every time before the recent update, but now SD will not connect to PF, just comes up with the error message as above. Perhaps you can reinstate the previous way of connecting, via the connections option.
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Tim Dawson
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My offer to diagnose this issue by borrowing the exact unit concerned still stands.
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leemoore1966
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Hi Folks,
As a quick test for connectivity, you should be able to run a 'telnet' session directly from your iOS device to the butterfly connect.
There is an APP on iOS called 'Telnet Lite', you could configure a telnet connection providing the following (depending on version of butterfly)
IP-ADDR: 192.168.1.1
IP-PORT: 2000
When you connect this, you can enter your PIN code, if all is well, you should then see the messages streamed to the application terminal
Thx
Lee
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Michael Rubio
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FYI, I am having the exact same problem - same setup, same issue...
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Birdyboy
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and me. Nexus, and PFLARM by wifi. doesn't connect any more.
I used to have to disable 4g data mode on the andriod for it to pick up the wifi connection but this no longer works
Europa farm strip flyer, Bedfordshire, UK
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DMIPU
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Hi all,
same Problem with IOS (IPAD mini). I have installed Powerfarm Core with Wifi-Adator: Tried today the lastest Version of SD with Android and it worked fine.
Since last update of SD it connects short then loose connectin. In Version before it worked as it should.
Is there any solution meanwhile?
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DMIPU
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Today updated to IOS9 and everything worked fine!!!!
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Michael Rubio
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I upgraded to IOS9 and are able to fly for much longer now with my PowerFLarm and Butterfly connect working.
This weekend I did a 1 hour flight, no problem.
Thought it was all sorted out, but, I then did another 40 min flight and after 15 min had a loss of GPS connection to the Butterfly connect. Had to perform the all to familiar inflight reboot of the PF and Butterfly. Consequently I did the remaining flight with no problem.
Later that day I did another 1 hour flight, no problem.
Conclusion is, the problem is still there, but not so frequent - if 3-4 flights are representative for anything.
Everybody out there, please share your findings so that this problem can be solved.
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Paul Mahony
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Dear Tim - et al,
With regards to the original problem that I raised at the start of this thread, please accept my thanks for being willing to see if it was my Power Flarm Core that was causing the issues and my apologies for this tardy reply. For your information, I sent the unit back to Butterfly Avionics who put it on an extended test for three weeks but they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I connected it back up, played about with it and I'm pleased to say that the connection from my Power Flarm Core / Butterfly Connect Wi-Fi unit to my iPad running SD is now all sorted! Errr, it was simple operator error!
Let me explain: The problem was that previous versions of SD didn't seem to alter the 4-digit PIN number that I had inputted to connect my iPad's Wi-Fi receiver to the Butterfly Connect Wi-Fi unit. But after a particular SD update, it seemed to then use the default Wi-Fi code of 1234 but I never noticed this. It was only whilst going into to 'Setup' - 'Air Connect Key' and changing the default 1234 to my own unique 4-digit Butterfly Connect Wi-Fi PIN that everything was then OK again and I could go to 'Go Flying' - 'Use Flarm' and instantly obtain accurate location data. Doh!!
Tim, I'm very pleased to hear that you're looking at more integration of traffic warning with SD but I still have a major gripe with the size of the numerical information (height and distance) that appears next to a FLARM or ADS-B threat. It is just too small for elderly eyes and it doesn't get any bigger despite zooming in. Isn't there something that could be done? The next time it occurs, I'll try and get a screen shot so you can see how small the writing is.
The big warning (i.e.: "Traffic 1 O'clock") written in yellow inside a black background rectangle is nice and big but only illuminates for a very brief time. Luckily, I have the optional audio licence with my Power Flarm Core and get to hear the warning which pulls my eyes to the iPad screen.
For the information of other Power Flarm Core / SD users, my set-up has proved faultless and works continuously. On another ADS-B note, its great going to FlightRadar24.com (on a PC) and selecting Data/History, entering my aircraft registration and seeing my track-log obtained from my Mode-S / Extended squitter ADS-B Out functionality. There's no use trying to tell the CAA that I wasn't at 300 feet buzzing my mate's house now!!
Great work, Tim and your team; I've just renewed for a third year.
Paul
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Michael Rubio
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Latest from my side in respect to "disconnected GPS connection" between the SD on my Ipad and PF + Butterfly Connect. I did another long flight. This time a 2+ hr flight from DK to Poland and the 2+ hr return flight. With all latest updates, SD and IOS, I did this time not encounter any problem whatsoever. Im starting to think these updates have solved the (my) issue  Paul rightfully mention, that "The big warning (i.e.: "Traffic 1 O'clock") written in yellow inside a black background rectangle is nice and big but only illuminates for a very brief time. " This would be nice to get improved, hence the possibility to adjust the time shown.
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Tim Dawson
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We can't do anything about the amount of time that is shown for, really. We only show it when Flarm tells us to, and there's no point in our continuing to show it once Flarm have told us the threat (whatever it was) is no more. This will be better once people move away from Flarm to ADS/B technologies, when SkyDemon's own collision warning system will kick in and that shows warning more in advance - at the very least 15 seconds.
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Bouwair
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"SkyDemon's own collision warning system" ?
When is this system due?
Kind regards
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Al Walker
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>>"SkyDemon's own collision warning system"<<
Errrrm pardon??
Have I been asleep?
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Tim Dawson
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It's purely a software system, and will become used when more hardware ADS/B receivers/transceivers are available over the coming year or two, and are connected to SkyDemon.
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Birdyboy
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So I think I have found the issue I was having with PFLARM and SD not connecting. I just hadn't noticed that the butterfly connect code had been reset to the default of 1234 in the s/w update and there was now a new place the code under Setup->Device Connectivity Options...
Silly me, I expect it will work OK now.
Europa farm strip flyer, Bedfordshire, UK
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Timbo the Wizard
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I've had a problem getting SD to stay connected to PF for more than a few minutes (between 7 and 20) using a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 or Tab 4 (Android), but have twice run it for over an hour without problem on an iPad (IOS8). Once the connection goes the only way of resolving the issue is resetting the Wifi. LX Avionics (PF dealer) told me that they've had a problem with PF and Android (something to do with update rate, I think the chap said).
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Paul Mahony
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Hi Tim, Please find enclosed a couple of screenshots of contacts that have shown up on my 10" inch iPad running SD after being detected by my aircraft's PF Core. I'm not sure that they show fine detail but you can probably see that the Flarm contact (a glider) has almost totally illegible distance and height info due to the font size. Similarly, the transponder equipped contact is shown by white ring (I.e it was non- threatening) but agin, the distance info is just too small to be read. If it wasn't for the optional audio licence I have with my PF Core, I probably wouldn't have noticed the Flarm contact. Is there any way the font size can be made bigger please? If you would like the pics to be sent to you via email, please let me know. Thanks. Paul  
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Tim Dawson
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Please send us screenshots by email (support at skydemon.aero) so we can accurately judge the actual physical size of the text you have seen.
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Skee
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SO i connected my brand new Airconnect today, its the new version that does not come with a pin code, so what should i have in the pin code row in SD? So problem is i cant connect it just chews and gives me error.
where do i start?
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Skee
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ok so i found this document and punched in pin code 6074 and it works, totaly unreasonable.
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TouchTheSky
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The new Air Connect uses protected WiFi and therefore no PIN in the app is required any more. However I am afraid the app needs a random key, e.g. "0000" or any other key. Then it should work.
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neubamat
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I've noticed that SD tries to connect to different IPs and ports depending on the PIN... e.g.:
0000: 192.168.0.14:100
4500: 169.254.1.1:2000
5000: 1.2.3.4:2000
5500: 192.168.1.1:2000
sample netstat output:
Must be to address different HW releases... according to Skee's manual snippet...
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TouchTheSky
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+xI've noticed that SD tries to connect to different IPs and ports depending on the PIN... e.g.:
0000: 192.168.0.14:100
4500: 169.254.1.1:2000
5000: 1.2.3.4:2000
5500: 192.168.1.1:2000
sample netstat output:
Must be to address different HW releases... according to Skee's manual snippet...
See integration manual, there seems to be a indeed connection between HW release and PIN:
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Skee
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Just got this reply.
Riccardo Bertolini (AIR Avionics) 3. Sep., 07:43 CEST Dear Dennis thank you for your message. use the pin 5555 or higher. We are always happy to help if you have more questions. Kind regards Riccardo Bertolini
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Peer
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I'm using PowerFLARM since more tha a year and whould never fly without it again. But unfortunately it works not perfect with SD. There are diconnections from time t time and the team from SD is not willing to do anything against it.
So I think i have to go back to my previous flight navigation software.
I like SD but not without my FLARM.
Peer
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PaulSS
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Seems to me that neither Power Flarm nor Sky Demon is the problem but your Air Connect, which occasionally sends out spurious signals and is, therefore, rejected by SD during its checks that the data is valid. Why should Tim have to deal with 'garbage in' when other connections don't have the same problem?
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Peer
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+xSeems to me that neither Power Flarm nor Sky Demon is the problem but your Air Connect, which occasionally sends out spurious signals and is, therefore, rejected by SD during its checks that the data is valid. Why should Tim have to deal with 'garbage in' when other connections don't have the same problem? Hmmm...but why does that garbage works fine whith other software?
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PaulSS
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+x+xSeems to me that neither Power Flarm nor Sky Demon is the problem but your Air Connect, which occasionally sends out spurious signals and is, therefore, rejected by SD during its checks that the data is valid. Why should Tim have to deal with 'garbage in' when other connections don't have the same problem? Hmmm...but why does that garbage works fine whith other software? I can't answer that, Peer, but I think I would rather have a device that I know ONLY works with valid data, rather than a device that POSSIBLY uses corrupt data. What else is that other device hiding from you if it's prepared to use data that does not pass check sums?
As I said before; this is an Air Connect problem, not a Sky Demon problem.
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Peer
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+x+x+xSeems to me that neither Power Flarm nor Sky Demon is the problem but your Air Connect, which occasionally sends out spurious signals and is, therefore, rejected by SD during its checks that the data is valid. Why should Tim have to deal with 'garbage in' when other connections don't have the same problem? Hmmm...but why does that garbage works fine whith other software? I can't answer that, Peer, but I think I would rather have a device that I know ONLY works with valid data, rather than a device that POSSIBLY uses corrupt data. What else is that other device hiding from you if it's prepared to use data that does not pass check sums?
As I said before; this is an Air Connect problem, not a Sky Demon problem. Well, it seems you are not an expert. Sorry. What would you do, if your PC would shut down on every network error. What do you think are CRC check sums for? Swithing off your computer? Or to give the soft/harware the chance to handle NORMAL ereos? Transmitting data wireless is never 100% error less.
I thing fault tolerance is a helpfull thing. As in real ife as in software coding, isn't it?
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PaulSS
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+x+x+x+xSeems to me that neither Power Flarm nor Sky Demon is the problem but your Air Connect, which occasionally sends out spurious signals and is, therefore, rejected by SD during its checks that the data is valid. Why should Tim have to deal with 'garbage in' when other connections don't have the same problem? Hmmm...but why does that garbage works fine whith other software? I can't answer that, Peer, but I think I would rather have a device that I know ONLY works with valid data, rather than a device that POSSIBLY uses corrupt data. What else is that other device hiding from you if it's prepared to use data that does not pass check sums?
As I said before; this is an Air Connect problem, not a Sky Demon problem. Well, it seems you are not an expert. Sorry. What would you do, if your PC would shut down on every network error. What do you think are CRC check sums for? Swithing off your computer? Or to give the soft/harware the chance to handle NORMAL ereos? Transmitting data wireless is never 100% error less.
I thing fault tolerance is a helpfull thing. As in real ife as in software coding, isn't it?
Well, next time you use Internet banking and you send $10 000 but only $1 000 is received then you can blame the same thinking as yours. If I get a problem with an app on my computer then it stops the app. It doesn't shut down the computer. Does the Air Connect problem actually cause SD to shut down your tablet or does SD just stop working. I'm not an expert, no, but I do know about GIGO and you're expecting Tim to just accept GI and adjust his app to account for that. Air Connect shouldn't be outputting faults......it's as simple as that.
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Peer
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+x+x+x+x+xSeems to me that neither Power Flarm nor Sky Demon is the problem but your Air Connect, which occasionally sends out spurious signals and is, therefore, rejected by SD during its checks that the data is valid. Why should Tim have to deal with 'garbage in' when other connections don't have the same problem? Hmmm...but why does that garbage works fine whith other software? I can't answer that, Peer, but I think I would rather have a device that I know ONLY works with valid data, rather than a device that POSSIBLY uses corrupt data. What else is that other device hiding from you if it's prepared to use data that does not pass check sums?
As I said before; this is an Air Connect problem, not a Sky Demon problem. Well, it seems you are not an expert. Sorry. What would you do, if your PC would shut down on every network error. What do you think are CRC check sums for? Swithing off your computer? Or to give the soft/harware the chance to handle NORMAL ereos? Transmitting data wireless is never 100% error less.
I thing fault tolerance is a helpfull thing. As in real ife as in software coding, isn't it?
Well, next time you use Internet banking and you send $10 000 but only $1 000 is received then you can blame the same thinking as yours. If I get a problem with an app on my computer then it stops the app. It doesn't shut down the computer. Does the Air Connect problem actually cause SD to shut down your tablet or does SD just stop working. I'm not an expert, no, but I do know about GIGO and you're expecting Tim to just accept GI and adjust his app to account for that. Air Connect shouldn't be outputting faults......it's as simple as that. Hi Paul, ok, you are right! Not a good example. Sorry for that. Let me try to explain it with an other exaple. Let's say SD were an email client. From time to time there comes spam with your mails. What do you thing is the best way to do? Stop working the App? Asking for a mailserver don't sending spam?
Or just give a massage that there ist a spam mail?
BTW: The air connect only fowards the data it gets from the device via RS232 protokol (serial) and unfortunately it is normal that there are errors from time to time. That was no problem the last 30 years as HW and SW can handel them.
In case of SD the worst case is when the navigation suddenly stops. That is definitvly not good for safty.
And if you ever used a FLARM, you will understand why i would never fly without it again.
I love SD, yes, but if i had to decide, the the FLARM has the higher priority. As i mentioned other flight navigation apps can handle the faulty data and providing a working and safty system without sudden stoping navigation.
I hope SD will be willing to find a solution. Do not make a phillosophy of that problem. Just let us fly in safty. PLEASE!
Live could be soooo nice.
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Skee
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So i was out flying yesterday and it cut me out once, instead of exiting "Go flying" could it not go over to "location services" instead of canceling my flight?
its a bit annoyish when i a few minutes later see that im not flying, aint getting any logs.
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Tim Dawson
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Peer, in your email analogy, the email client wouldn't stop working but it would immediately stop receiving anything from that particular sender (who is known to send spam/malware) and not receive any more from that sender until you re-enabled it. That's the equivalent of what SkyDemon is doing.
You appear to think it is "normal" for an aviation device to send out erroneous data. It is not. I cannot emphasize that enough. We do have experience of working with many different pieces of hardware, remember.
It is very likely that other navigation apps simply are not performing the checking that we do. We are rigorous, because being incorrect is unthinkable to us. Obviously, the vendor of your device which is outputting erroneous data is not checking that output either. It's extremely sad in the world of aviation that either of these cases are true.
My one concession would be that we would be willing to talk with the vendor of your problematic hardware and if they have a known bug where ONE particular erroneous piece of information is regularly sent by one of their products, and that piece of information was deemed by us to be harmless, we would alter our code to ignore that particular field.
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