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Notams displayed incorrectly


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wyullg
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I have noticed that a few notams have radius of x, but for some reason SkyDemon is increasing the radius of the notams and drawing the increased radius on the map. Attached is an example. Could this be fixed please.
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pilot-byom
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Tim Dawson - 12/10/2020 3:46:09 PM
You always need to read the NOTAM briefing, because there are many NOTAM that cannot be graphically depicted.

Having said that, it's usually worth posting about a NOTAM where you think we could have done a better job interpreting the text to draw a more specific illustration than the fail-safe Q-line circle that all NOTAM have. Just like in this thread. Thanks!

First thing is a general one, I'd welcome if all NOTAM 'Q-circles' are drawn 2 nautical miles bigger due to the Q-line not using seconds as a geo location. By adding 2 nautical to the radius one would be sure the real affected area of the NOTAM is surely within the circle drawn. Just as a safety add-on to avoid people smashing into closed airspace while they see themselves outside the area.

grahamb
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pilot-byom - 12/11/2020 2:49:56 PM
Tim Dawson - 12/10/2020 3:46:09 PM
You always need to read the NOTAM briefing, because there are many NOTAM that cannot be graphically depicted.

Having said that, it's usually worth posting about a NOTAM where you think we could have done a better job interpreting the text to draw a more specific illustration than the fail-safe Q-line circle that all NOTAM have. Just like in this thread. Thanks!

First thing is a general one, I'd welcome if all NOTAM 'Q-circles' are drawn 2 nautical miles bigger due to the Q-line not using seconds as a geo location. By adding 2 nautical to the radius one would be sure the real affected area of the NOTAM is surely within the circle drawn. Just as a safety add-on to avoid people smashing into closed airspace while they see themselves outside the area.

Why 2nm, when the maximum displacement error would be 0.707 nautical miles? If you actually read the NOTAM, there is no issue about 'smashing into' things. 

pilot-byom
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grahamb - 12/11/2020 3:59:55 PM
pilot-byom - 12/11/2020 2:49:56 PM
Tim Dawson - 12/10/2020 3:46:09 PM
You always need to read the NOTAM briefing, because there are many NOTAM that cannot be graphically depicted.

Having said that, it's usually worth posting about a NOTAM where you think we could have done a better job interpreting the text to draw a more specific illustration than the fail-safe Q-line circle that all NOTAM have. Just like in this thread. Thanks!

First thing is a general one, I'd welcome if all NOTAM 'Q-circles' are drawn 2 nautical miles bigger due to the Q-line not using seconds as a geo location. By adding 2 nautical to the radius one would be sure the real affected area of the NOTAM is surely within the circle drawn. Just as a safety add-on to avoid people smashing into closed airspace while they see themselves outside the area.

Why 2nm, when the maximum displacement error would be 0.707 nautical miles? If you actually read the NOTAM, there is no issue about 'smashing into' things. 

Because it is two coordinates and Pythagoras, so up to 1.4nm dislocation. The 2nm was just a suggestion based on add 0.5nm for margin plus no digits after decimal plus keep the safety margin. The trouble with 'smashing into' is not the flight preparation on the ground, but looking at the map in flight and holes in pilots memory to remember the area in question has a different position and in which direction. 
Edited 12/12/2020 10:05:15 AM by pilot-byom
grahamb
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pilot-byom - 12/12/2020 9:51:43 AM
grahamb - 12/11/2020 3:59:55 PM
pilot-byom - 12/11/2020 2:49:56 PM
Tim Dawson - 12/10/2020 3:46:09 PM
You always need to read the NOTAM briefing, because there are many NOTAM that cannot be graphically depicted.

Having said that, it's usually worth posting about a NOTAM where you think we could have done a better job interpreting the text to draw a more specific illustration than the fail-safe Q-line circle that all NOTAM have. Just like in this thread. Thanks!

First thing is a general one, I'd welcome if all NOTAM 'Q-circles' are drawn 2 nautical miles bigger due to the Q-line not using seconds as a geo location. By adding 2 nautical to the radius one would be sure the real affected area of the NOTAM is surely within the circle drawn. Just as a safety add-on to avoid people smashing into closed airspace while they see themselves outside the area.

Why 2nm, when the maximum displacement error would be 0.707 nautical miles? If you actually read the NOTAM, there is no issue about 'smashing into' things. 

Because it is two coordinates and Pythagoras, so up to 1.4nm dislocation. The 2nm was just a suggestion based on add 0.5nm for margin plus no digits after decimal plus keep the safety margin. The trouble with 'smashing into' is not the flight preparation on the ground, but looking at the map in flight and holes in pilots memory to remember the area in question has a different position and in which direction. 

Gosh, how did we manage when NOTAM were published unfiltered in text form on 10 pages of A4 paper.

0.7 max dislocation, not 1.4. It's only half a mile NS or EW from the centre of a box representing a minute by a minute to the edge of the next one - and that's at the equator.

pilot-byom
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grahamb - 12/12/2020 10:57:55 AM
Gosh, how did we manage when NOTAM were published unfiltered in text form on 10 pages of A4 paper.

0.7 max dislocation, not 1.4. It's only half a mile NS or EW from the centre of a box representing a minute by a minute to the edge of the next one - and that's at the equator.

There is no rule NOTAM Q-lines are mathematically rounded and the one issuing has all the freedom, so they may be off by up to a whole mile and in reality they are sometimes, so it is SQRT(2) max error. Simple risk management, the probability may be low at that distance but the possible impact is high - they will always argue you should have read the full NOTAM, so the display on the map should be max safety, do you agree?

Edited 12/13/2020 10:26:48 AM by pilot-byom
grahamb
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pilot-byom - 12/13/2020 9:20:37 AM
grahamb - 12/12/2020 10:57:55 AM
Gosh, how did we manage when NOTAM were published unfiltered in text form on 10 pages of A4 paper.

0.7 max dislocation, not 1.4. It's only half a mile NS or EW from the centre of a box representing a minute by a minute to the edge of the next one - and that's at the equator.

There is no rule NOTAM Q-lines are mathematically rounded and the one issuing has all the freedom, so they may be off by up to a whole mile and in reality they are sometimes, so it is SQRT(2) max. error.

I still disagree, but it's not worth arguing about.

However, I disagree with the concept of artifically enlarging the Q-line radius of influence. It's there to draw your attention to a NOTAM, not to define it. The risk is that the less well informed treat the whole thing as a no-fly area, and in areas of congested airspace it can cause people to rereoute their flights and funnel them into narrow spaces unecessarily, or even abandon their flights with the current nervousness about infringements here in the UK currently.

GO

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wyullg - 11/27/2020 4:27:38 PM
grahamb - 11/27/2020 4:31:46 PM
             That would explain that. Thank you
wyullg - 11/27/2020 4:36:47 PM
wyullg - 11/27/2020 4:34:36 PM
Tim Dawson - 11/30/2020 3:03:07 PM
pilot-byom - 12/10/2020 2:53:13 PM
Tim Dawson - 12/10/2020 3:46:09 PM
pilot-byom - 12/11/2020 2:49:56 PM
grahamb - 12/11/2020 3:59:55 PM
                     Because it is two coordinates and Pythagoras, so up to 1.4nm...
pilot-byom - 12/12/2020 9:51:43 AM
                         Gosh, how did we manage when NOTAM were published unfiltered in text...
grahamb - 12/12/2020 10:57:55 AM
                             There is no rule NOTAM Q-lines are mathematically rounded and the one...
pilot-byom - 12/13/2020 9:20:37 AM
                                 I still disagree, but it's not worth arguing about. However, I...
grahamb - 12/13/2020 10:24:04 AM
Tim Dawson - 12/14/2020 10:11:06 AM
pilot-byom - 12/14/2020 3:29:33 PM
Tim Dawson - 12/15/2020 11:59:27 AM
tnowak - 12/16/2020 7:10:28 AM
Tim Dawson - 12/16/2020 3:59:41 PM
riverrock - 3/5/2021 8:49:22 AM

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