Would you be interested in Traffic and Weather all at the same time on Skydemon or other EFBs?
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marioair
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+xMario, just to clarify, are you proposing to bring the device in your original post to market? Yes.
At the moment I am looking at EFBs which can support concurrent display of all the features and one area of issue is that even if you have separate boxes e.g. SkyEcho or PaW for Traffic and ADL for Weather, you can't display both on the same instance of SD without compromise*. That's a separate feature request i've raised on the this forum
However notwithstanding that, the proposed device would still work with other apps e.g. ForeFlight etc, but having SD full supported would be awesome, hence trying to understand if folks would like to see such a feature supported by SD
P.s. I've messaged Hannah direct (email) on the subject too
*Eg GDL doesnt support bearing-less, you'd have to drop all that data. You cant get SD to accept both Flarm and GDL concurrently, which would be one potential work around
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pilot-byom
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+x+xMario, just to clarify, are you proposing to bring the device in your original post to market? Yes.
At the moment I am looking at EFBs which can support concurrent display of all the features and one area of issue is that even if you have separate boxes e.g. SkyEcho or PaW for Traffic and ADL for Weather, you can't display both on the same instance of SD without compromise*. That's a separate feature request i've raised on the this forum
However notwithstanding that, the proposed device would still work with other apps e.g. ForeFlight etc, but having SD full supported would be awesome, hence trying to understand if folks would like to see such a feature supported by SD
P.s. I've messaged Hannah direct (email) on the subject too
*Eg GDL doesnt support bearing-less, you'd have to drop all that data. You cant get SD to accept both Flarm and GDL concurrently, which would be one potential work around As you are obviously a commercial vendor doing market research, I assume you are aware of the physics of your request. Accepting two different sources both containing GPS location data, you have to find a way to calculate both input devices data separately. I guess Skydemon would have to run two instances, but the trouble starts when you combine the data - which is the correct one?
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marioair
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+x+x+xMario, just to clarify, are you proposing to bring the device in your original post to market? Yes.
At the moment I am looking at EFBs which can support concurrent display of all the features and one area of issue is that even if you have separate boxes e.g. SkyEcho or PaW for Traffic and ADL for Weather, you can't display both on the same instance of SD without compromise*. That's a separate feature request i've raised on the this forum
However notwithstanding that, the proposed device would still work with other apps e.g. ForeFlight etc, but having SD full supported would be awesome, hence trying to understand if folks would like to see such a feature supported by SD
P.s. I've messaged Hannah direct (email) on the subject too
*Eg GDL doesnt support bearing-less, you'd have to drop all that data. You cant get SD to accept both Flarm and GDL concurrently, which would be one potential work around As you are obviously a commercial vendor doing market research, I assume you are aware of the physics of your request. Accepting two different sources both containing GPS location data, you have to find a way to calculate both input devices data separately. I guess Skydemon would have to run two instances, but the trouble starts when you combine the data - which is the correct one? Hi - just a hobbiest I assure you! PaW, ADL and SD all were grass routes startups too
We've agreed a way forwards where the ownship data is sourced from one place - SD doesn't need to de-dupe
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b3nn0
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If SD would be willing to implement a GDL90 extension for bearingless targets I would be happy to support this extension in Stratux EU. There has already been a discussion to implement something like this, but it only makes sense if EFBs suppor it: @Tim: Are you open to something like this? I think we could easily develop a commonly adapted extension, as I know other EFB developers that have shown interest in this aswell. GDL90 is just the better protocol over Flarm-NMEA - with the exception of that missing feature, IMO.
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Hamish Mead
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Mario, are you in effect describing analogs of the TIS-B and FIS-B services as described in the FAA's ADS-B In Pilot Applications?
While Europe's CAA's all seem to keep kicking the ADS-B ball down the road, I wonder if – as an intermediate step at least, assuming the technical challenges are modest and ideally(?), use of the 978Mhz can be secured – the operators of PaW's growing international network of OGN-R Ground Stations might be enticed or interested in adding a FIS-B service to their existing traffic re-broadcast service?
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marioair
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@hamish
Heaven forbid Europe gets a similar level of capability as our US cousins do.
Yeah I think the answer is always going to be something that gives enough results now whilst not ignoring the future. A combination of cellular and VHF gives the cheapest route for the consumer, with the backup or satellite if and only if needed.
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marioair
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Tim Dawson Tim Dawson
posted Yesterday @ 12:50 PM
Mario, just to clarify, are you proposing to bring the device in your original post to market?
@Tim do you have a point of view on extending GDL versus allowing GDL and Flarm concurrently versus some other solution?
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Tim Dawson
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We consider GDL90 the best protocol for use with GPS, traffic and weather receivers.
Although we support input of so-called bearingless targets with the FLARM protocol, these do not (can cannot) form part of our traffic warning service. They lack a bearing completely and distance can only be implied, therefore on any busy day there will constantly be a flurry of bearingless targets all around you. We do not consider alerting the pilot to this as helpful, as it promotes constant monitoring of the device screen. We therefore have no problem with the fact GDL90 does not provide a message for such information.
The notion of connecting SkyDemon to more than one such device at a time is not something that is likely. For reasons outlined by another poster above, it would be complex and unclear which device was responsible for which data.
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marioair
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+xWe consider GDL90 the best protocol for use with GPS, traffic and weather receivers.
Although we support input of so-called bearingless targets with the FLARM protocol, these do not (can cannot) form part of our traffic warning service. They lack a bearing completely and distance can only be implied, therefore on any busy day there will constantly be a flurry of bearingless targets all around you. We do not consider alerting the pilot to this as helpful, as it promotes constant monitoring of the device screen. We therefore have no problem with the fact GDL90 does not provide a message for such information.
The notion of connecting SkyDemon to more than one such device at a time is not something that is likely. For reasons outlined by another poster above, it would be complex and unclear which device was responsible for which data. Tim - thanks for the clarifications. Based on your comments some more questions if I may?
1) Within Skydemon's Third Party devices you have PaW as an explicit option, separate to Flarm and GD. What format do you use/expect if PaW is selected - PFlarm or GDL? PaW can transmit both.
2) I agree GDL is the way to go and am encouraged by your support of "open-source". However have you discontinued display of bearingless range circles in SD or as audio alerts? I thought you get this via PaW and Flarm but I may be remembering incorrectly?
You have both PaW and Stratux pleading with you to do this and their respective user-base in support....just sayin :-)
It sounds like a chance for a SKYDEMON defined extension of GDL that you can tell PaW, SkyEhco, Stratux to deal with. You could then chuck away mode c/s data that didn't match criteria that you were happy with/created too much noise. Perhaps it could be used just to prompt audio alerts if selected by the use, rather than cluttering the screen.
3) The main request though - on accepting multiple data feeds - apologies for the confusion - my proposal for SD to accept multiple sources was a (nasty) workaround if you weren't interested in supporting an extension to GDL above. There is a prototype firmware change I'm volunteering to test (along with Sebastion@ADL) whereby I have PaW and ADL feeding SD. ADL will be configured to suppress own-ship/GPS etc and just transmit weather packets. So as far a SD is concerned it's still just receiving GDL data. It just feel a shame that by doing this we have to select the "GDL-compatible" option in SD rather than the PilotAware option and lose the extra bell's and whistles??
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Tim Dawson
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The PilotAware option in SkyDemon uses the FLARM protocol, but broadcast over UDP instead of via a persistent TCP connection. The reason for its invention was unreliable TCP connections, and since then we've made the FLARM connection more robust so that it automatically reconnects.
We do show range circles when the FLARM protocol advises us of a nearby bearingless target that it believes may be a threat. This is particular to the FLARM protocol, its threat-classification of such targets is proprietary. We do not issue any SkyDemon warnings based on such information and we never have. Indeed we believe them a distraction to the pilot, as noted in a previous post.
You can probably imagine given our stated position on bearingless targets that we are not interested in working to extend a protocol for the purpose of including them.
Your proposal to have ADL and PaW work together to transmit some sort of shared picture to SkyDemon sounds like a potentially workable means of getting both traffic and satellite-derived weather into SkyDemon. You're into unsupported territory as far as we are concerned, but it might just work. If you were to bring a new device to market that did both, you'd simply use GDL90 which supports this.
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