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"Radio" incorrect callsign for AD in several countries


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Frans
Frans
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As seen in Skydemon, and mentioned by the support team, Skydemon now adds the word "Radio" standard behind (uncontrolled) aerodrome callsigns without "Tower", "Info", "Traffic" etc. This leads to some incorrect data across several countries. Especially Switzerland should be mentioned here, where only the name of the aerodrome should be used as callsign without the use of "Radio" behind it. As an example: "Wangen-Lachen Radio" should be just "Wangen-Lachen". Only on airfields with AFIS "Information" should be added to the callsign, e.g. "Samedan Information", but this is still correct in Skydemon. Another example is Lithuania, where "Info" is often used instead of "Radio" or just "Traffic". France seems to be still correct, without "Radio".

Would be great to have this corrected in the upcoming charts.

Edited 11/20/2019 5:45:53 PM by Frans
pilot-byom
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Similar wrong seem to be all AFIS airfields of Germany.
Skydemon still lists them as INFO, but they are INFORMATION now.
This according to German NfL 1-1694-19 (radio standard procedures).
EDAZ is Schoenhagen INFORMATION, not INFO.

Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
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Sorry, callsigns are lifted by us straight out of the AIPs used as source material. If you have found an instance where you believe we are adding or interpreting these, please let me know. I will ask my colleague what we do in Switzerland for aerodromes without an AIP entry.

I've just checked our DFS digital data and the callsign at EDAZ is explicitly provided to us as INFO not INFORMATION. I will ask them to clarify whether a change to this is planned.

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Tim Dawson - 11/21/2019 12:29:31 PM
Sorry, callsigns are lifted by us straight out of the AIPs used as source material. If you have found an instance where you believe we are adding or interpreting these, please let me know. I will ask my colleague what we do in Switzerland for aerodromes without an AIP entry.

I've just checked our DFS digital data and the callsign at EDAZ is explicitly provided to us as INFO not INFORMATION. I will ask them to clarify whether a change to this is planned.

With the mentioned official NfL (Nachrichten für Luftfahrer = messages for airmen) the change is in place starting back August 2019. German authorities tend to require every pilot to use ‚all available material‘ for flight planning - AIP alone is definitely not sufficient.
Edited 11/21/2019 1:26:30 PM by MarkusM
Frans
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Germany is indeed a bit complicated. These "NfL" messages are only accessible if you have a paid subscription for it. I assume that the DFS will update their AIP somewhere in the future, but for now, they want to earn money from the NfLs. Otherwise, these typical German  NfLs wouldn't make any sense, since normal countries publish this kind of information directly into their AIPs.

Fortunately, the aeroclub Straubing published this NfL inofficially on their website. It can be downloaded here. The change from INFO to INFORMATION counts only for AFIS-airfields, most of them have an RMZ in Germany, other uncontrolled aerodromes have still the callsign "INFO".

Edited 11/21/2019 10:51:22 PM by Frans
Tim Dawson
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Hopefully the DFS will respond positively to my enquiry.
emporer
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enclosed find the complete text from the NFL unfortunately in German :
Tim Dawson
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This is the position from DFS:

Hello Tim,
thank you for your e-mail.
You are right according NfL 1-1694-19 AFIS service could have the callsign: INFORMATION.
But the change from INFO to INFORMATION does not apply to all AFIS aerodromes in general. The aerodrome operator has to make some kind of a certificate, which allows him to provide the AFIS service. At least the operator should inform us about the new callsign.
Unfortunately no aerodrome has informed us yet that his call sign has changed.

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Tim Dawson - 11/22/2019 1:55:14 PM
This is the position from DFS:

Hello Tim,
thank you for your e-mail.
You are right according NfL 1-1694-19 AFIS service could have the callsign: INFORMATION.
But the change from INFO to INFORMATION does not apply to all AFIS aerodromes in general. The aerodrome operator has to make some kind of a certificate, which allows him to provide the AFIS service. At least the operator should inform us about the new callsign.
Unfortunately no aerodrome has informed us yet that his call sign has changed.

This is the <selfcensored> position we know from that <selfcensored> broken system. When 833 was introduced we saw the same, with result ATC sometimes did not have the correct frequency of an airfield. New to me the DFS belief the change would be not for all AFIS aerodromes - I wonder what CAA says to that?

Tim Dawson
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Perhaps someone will ask them. It's no fun being stuck in the middle, trying to get the best data available for our customers. At the moment it seems the DFS believe that although a new policy is in place, it requires aerodrome operators to certify that they have actually changed their "callsign". Strange, but I think we are still doing the best we can by using the DFS data in this regard.
GO

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