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SkyEcho - Portable ADS-B In/Out Solution - Linked to SD


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Alf
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Sky Painter - 6/4/2019 5:05:28 PM
Paul Guilbert - 6/4/2019 2:57:10 PM
Daniel Sinn - 6/4/2019 8:11:26 AM
Unfortunately uAvionix has discontinued the announced support for Mode C/S targets. Please see the attached Mail.



Very disappointing. I have a TRX-1500 which  receives the exact 3D-position of FLARM® and ADS-B Traffic as well as distance and relative altitude of Mode-S transponders and presents the latter very helpfully. I thought Mode C and Mode S were quite distinct so I am not then sure why it is that uAvionix bundles them together as an insurmountable issue?  Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that ADS-B is now compulsory in the USA and Europe isn't worth the effort? I sit on the flight path into an airport in Europe. I am running the uAvionix box alongside the TRX-1500.  An overview of traffic into the airport daily (aircraft type and number of ins/outs):

Embraer 195          8
ATR 42/72             30
Dornier                  16*
Bombardier Q400 24
Other commercial 20 
G.A.                      lots

Only the Dorniers are picked up by uAVionix and about 10% of GA as they are more modern and have ADS-B out. That's a LOT of 'invisible' traffic. Quoting that nothing can replace mark 1 eye-ball raises three questions for me:

1 Has the quotee ever flown busy airspace looking for an airfield that is unfamiliar to them. How many eyes is the pilot supposed to have? Personally I only have 2.
2. IMC? 
3. How often is a pilot unable to spot traffic even when told where it is until it is very close?
 
Obviously this item is of very limited value until ADS-B becomes mandatory in the UK. Personally I hope that is soon for all of our safety.

1. SkyEcho has been developed specifically for the European market;

2. Simply put, Mode C and Mode S both report altitude. The only difference is that Mode S additionally reports the aircraft registration;

3. ADS-B is NOT mandatory in the USA until 1 January 2020, and then only for certain types of airspace (for now);

4. ADS-B will be mandatory in Europe from 7 June 2020, but only for aircraft that weigh more than 5,700kg OR have a maximum cruise speed greater than 250kts. I'm sure that it will eventually become mandatory for all aircraft as aviation moves away from radar based surveillance to position based surveillance.

If I am in error in respect of any of the above points, I stand to be corrected.

Hi all,

that is correct according to my information, thanks!

Just a question, as I am quite confused regarding the Mode C/S discussion (bearingless targets in SD) and the latest reply of Uavionix. According to the actual datasheet on the Uavionix support page, Revision F of the firmware removes the Mode C/S functionality. I still see firmware version 2.13 (WIFI) and 2.6.6 (Transceiver), both dated 02/08/2019 on their homepage, which seems to be an older firmware according to the datasheet. With this firmware installed on my SkyEcho 2, I see bearingless Mode C/S aircraft at the moment. Am I correct, if I stop upgrades in future and remain on this FW, will I keep the "bearingless target" functionality or will SkyDemon remove this in future SD updates?

If I am correct, I would vote for keeping this functionality, as I am quite happy with it in my vintage aircraft with no further electronic instruments installed. Even not perfect, it is a big step ahead in regards of a safer operation.

Many thanks,
Alf

Paul Guilbert
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Sky Painter - 6/4/2019 5:05:28 PM
Paul Guilbert - 6/4/2019 2:57:10 PM
Daniel Sinn - 6/4/2019 8:11:26 AM
Unfortunately uAvionix has discontinued the announced support for Mode C/S targets. Please see the attached Mail.



Very disappointing. I have a TRX-1500 which  receives the exact 3D-position of FLARM® and ADS-B Traffic as well as distance and relative altitude of Mode-S transponders and presents the latter very helpfully. I thought Mode C and Mode S were quite distinct so I am not then sure why it is that uAvionix bundles them together as an insurmountable issue?  Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that ADS-B is now compulsory in the USA and Europe isn't worth the effort? I sit on the flight path into an airport in Europe. I am running the uAvionix box alongside the TRX-1500.  An overview of traffic into the airport daily (aircraft type and number of ins/outs):

Embraer 195          8
ATR 42/72             30
Dornier                  16*
Bombardier Q400 24
Other commercial 20 
G.A.                      lots

Only the Dorniers are picked up by uAVionix and about 10% of GA as they are more modern and have ADS-B out. That's a LOT of 'invisible' traffic. Quoting that nothing can replace mark 1 eye-ball raises three questions for me:

1 Has the quotee ever flown busy airspace looking for an airfield that is unfamiliar to them. How many eyes is the pilot supposed to have? Personally I only have 2.
2. IMC? 
3. How often is a pilot unable to spot traffic even when told where it is until it is very close?
 
Obviously this item is of very limited value until ADS-B becomes mandatory in the UK. Personally I hope that is soon for all of our safety.

1. SkyEcho has been developed specifically for the European market;

2. Simply put, Mode C and Mode S both report altitude. The only difference is that Mode S additionally reports the aircraft registration;

3. ADS-B is NOT mandatory in the USA until 1 January 2020, and then only for certain types of airspace (for now);

4. ADS-B will be mandatory in Europe from 7 June 2020, but only for aircraft that weigh more than 5,700kg OR have a maximum cruise speed greater than 250kts. I'm sure that it will eventually become mandatory for all aircraft as aviation moves away from radar based surveillance to position based surveillance.

If I am in error in respect of any of the above points, I stand to be corrected.

Reply:

1. If made for Europe and does not report Mode C or S then it is of very limited value (see my stats above).
2. Knowing an aircraft is within 1,000 feet (say) of your altitude and nearby is helpful. Bearing would be great but even just having altitude is important and is a helpful warning until the other aircraft's proximity is such that it no longer displays (moves away).
3. My mistake.
4. ASAP.



Paul Guilbert
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Alf - 6/4/2019 5:45:50 PM
Sky Painter - 6/4/2019 5:05:28 PM
Paul Guilbert - 6/4/2019 2:57:10 PM
Daniel Sinn - 6/4/2019 8:11:26 AM
Unfortunately uAvionix has discontinued the announced support for Mode C/S targets. Please see the attached Mail.



Very disappointing. I have a TRX-1500 which  receives the exact 3D-position of FLARM® and ADS-B Traffic as well as distance and relative altitude of Mode-S transponders and presents the latter very helpfully. I thought Mode C and Mode S were quite distinct so I am not then sure why it is that uAvionix bundles them together as an insurmountable issue?  Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that ADS-B is now compulsory in the USA and Europe isn't worth the effort? I sit on the flight path into an airport in Europe. I am running the uAvionix box alongside the TRX-1500.  An overview of traffic into the airport daily (aircraft type and number of ins/outs):

Embraer 195          8
ATR 42/72             30
Dornier                  16*
Bombardier Q400 24
Other commercial 20 
G.A.                      lots

Only the Dorniers are picked up by uAVionix and about 10% of GA as they are more modern and have ADS-B out. That's a LOT of 'invisible' traffic. Quoting that nothing can replace mark 1 eye-ball raises three questions for me:

1 Has the quotee ever flown busy airspace looking for an airfield that is unfamiliar to them. How many eyes is the pilot supposed to have? Personally I only have 2.
2. IMC? 
3. How often is a pilot unable to spot traffic even when told where it is until it is very close?
 
Obviously this item is of very limited value until ADS-B becomes mandatory in the UK. Personally I hope that is soon for all of our safety.

1. SkyEcho has been developed specifically for the European market;

2. Simply put, Mode C and Mode S both report altitude. The only difference is that Mode S additionally reports the aircraft registration;

3. ADS-B is NOT mandatory in the USA until 1 January 2020, and then only for certain types of airspace (for now);

4. ADS-B will be mandatory in Europe from 7 June 2020, but only for aircraft that weigh more than 5,700kg OR have a maximum cruise speed greater than 250kts. I'm sure that it will eventually become mandatory for all aircraft as aviation moves away from radar based surveillance to position based surveillance.

If I am in error in respect of any of the above points, I stand to be corrected.

Hi all,

that is correct according to my information, thanks!

Just a question, as I am quite confused regarding the Mode C/S discussion (bearingless targets in SD) and the latest reply of Uavionix. According to the actual datasheet on the Uavionix support page, Revision F of the firmware removes the Mode C/S functionality. I still see firmware version 2.13 (WIFI) and 2.6.6 (Transceiver), both dated 02/08/2019 on their homepage, which seems to be an older firmware according to the datasheet. With this firmware installed on my SkyEcho 2, I see bearingless Mode C/S aircraft at the moment. Am I correct, if I stop upgrades in future and remain on this FW, will I keep the "bearingless target" functionality or will SkyDemon remove this in future SD updates?

If I am correct, I would vote for keeping this functionality, as I am quite happy with it in my vintage aircraft with no further electronic instruments installed. Even not perfect, it is a big step ahead in regards of a safer operation.

Many thanks,
Alf

Alf

Absolutely agree.

Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
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SkyDemon has never supported the fledgling mode c/s reception briefly supported by the SkyEcho 2 device. It never had enough capabilities to match the comparable offering by FLARM/PaW devices so it didn't fit into our system.
Sky Painter
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Tim Dawson - 6/5/2019 10:16:05 AM
SkyDemon has never supported the fledgling mode c/s reception briefly supported by the SkyEcho 2 device. It never had enough capabilities to match the comparable offering by FLARM/PaW devices so it didn't fit into our system.

Hi Tim
Quick question. Would SkyEcho 2, together with an additional Flarm subscription, display Flarm's Mode C/S bearingless targets in SD?


Mike
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Tim Dawson
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No, that is functionality particular to FLARM hardware.
Edited 6/6/2019 9:19:23 AM by Tim Dawson
Drick
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Hi Guys,

I bought a SkyEcho 2 probe, with FLARM subscription together with SD. I use it the past 2 weeks during my holidays in France, during about 20 hours flight.

I am disappointed about the fact that I never “saw” any aircraft on SD, throw ADSB and SE2, except the liners. That is probably because it is a little bit too early in France into general aviation for using ADSB (?); It is still hard to recover after all expenses we had to do for the 8.33 equipments!…

My other disappointment (and my question) is about the detection distance for FLARM; Actually, I see gliders before SD! (not every time I confess; Otherwise I will not have use of these systems…):
-So, what is the distance detection of the FLARM (=gliders) when using SE2 & SD?

Fly safe



Owner of a VL3 Evolution

tnowak
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On some other forum I think a user of SE2 said FLARM detection appears to be only a few Km.
Is your SE2 mounted in a good location to receive transmissions?
Tony


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I put the SE2 on the rear window (via suction cup). As the fuselage is fully made with carbon, it is clear that location is important. First time I just put it on the pax sit, it even had problems to see the satellite! On the rear windows, no problem to see the satellites. Now, is it enough to get a good reception of the FLARM? I understood some FLARM system use 2 external antennas (one at the bottom and the other one on top of the fuselage).
-I am still looking for some SE2&FLARM users feed back



Owner of a VL3 Evolution

Paul Guilbert
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Agreed the SE2 with SD provides very little other than presentation of FLARM and ADS-B.

It maybe of interest that my TRX-1500 which is connected to my GARMIN 650 WILL provide warning of Mode C/S nearby, albeit with limited data. I do think there is merit in having this functionality even if the information is limited.

GO

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