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Great Circles


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peter@luthaus.de
p
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T67M - 7/27/2016 8:26:22 PM

I am very annoyed from the deviations even on relative short routes. I read through the posts and could not find a single argument favouring rhumb lines, also in this reply. I could also comment in detail:

"This has been discussed at length in these forums before, and equally good arguments put forward for rhumb lines - the primary one being that SkyDemon is a VFR-only tool aimed primarily at pilots of SEP aircraft and helicopters flying relatively short routes."
So it shouldn't matter to them, because they don't note a difference. Rhumb line or great circle is not flight rule dependent, I prefer to fly a great circle as well flying VFR, also my built in GPS doesn't note the difference in flight rules.

"A rhumb line is defined by a single heading which is close to the heading a PPL will measure from a Lambert Conic Conformal chart (if they remember to use the middle of the line!!!) whereas a great circle route has a constantly changing heading and is an unnecessary complication for most of the pilots Skydemon is aimed at. "
Also on a rumb line the heading is constantly changing (even the true one) because the wind will change along the route. Actually the course is constant for a rhumb line. And as already mentioned, there is no complication because people flying only VERY short distances will not notice it all, whilst people flying only moderate distances in order 100s NM east/west direction at out latitudes will be annoyed by rhumb lines and not by great circles.

"Previous discussions here have suggested that the choice of rhumb line vs great circle should be a configuration option in SkyDemon, although the default must be rhumb lines for consistency with the current interface."
I even see no point for a configuration option because great circle would make everybody happy. For the PLOG I would not care to leave it as it is, the mean course and heading would be fine. Of course configuration would be nice to show the differences in lessons.

"Incidentally, a straight line on a Lambert Conic Conformal projection is not actually a great circle route, although it is a good approximation for short routes."
The great circle is a very good approximation compared with the rhumb line, you will use charts where the cone constant represents approximately the earth's convergency. So why using a rhumb line that is a much worse approximation when you can have the better great circle?

" The error between a rhumb line and a great circle route is also insignificant within the DOC of most radio nav beacons, again because of the short distances involved."
Why do you want to be inaccurate when you can be accurate?

The last points you mentioned I can summarise you also think great circle is better but you accept the inaccuracy. I wouldn't if I had the choice. I really see no complication at all for a user not understanding the difference, the opposite: They will not be surprised that the built in GPS shows a different route.


T67M
T67M
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This has been discussed at length in these forums before, and equally good arguments put forward for rhumb lines - the primary one being that SkyDemon is a VFR-only tool aimed primarily at pilots of SEP aircraft and helicopters flying relatively short routes. A rhumb line is defined by a single heading which is close to the heading a PPL will measure from a Lambert Conic Conformal chart (if they remember to use the middle of the line!!!) whereas a great circle route has a constantly changing heading and is an unnecessary complication for most of the pilots Skydemon is aimed at.

Previous discussions here have suggested that the choice of rhumb line vs great circle should be a configuration option in SkyDemon, although the default must be rhumb lines for consistency with the current interface. At some point Tim and the team may choose to implement this - if they can find a sensible way to present the constantly changing heading on a printed PLog. I did suggest that the PLog should show the initial and final headings, but I haven't worked through all the corner cases to see if this works and is sufficient. 

Incidentally, a straight line on a Lambert Conic Conformal projection is not actually a great circle route, although it is a good approximation for short routes. The error between a rhumb line and a great circle route is also insignificant within the DOC of most radio nav beacons, again because of the short distances involved.
peter@luthaus.de
p
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Hello,
suggested by Tim I post this request in the forum for discussion. I noted (it was already mentioned in the forum) that SkyDemon uses generally rhumb lines to connect waypoints. I find this unsatisfactory and annoying. Industry standard and the wanted way is great circles. There are many reasons why great circles should be used (compared to none using rhumblines):
1) Great circle is the standard for GPS navigation, so built in certified GPS use it and Skydemon is not consistent with the track actually flown even producing off track warnings.
2) For planning the total distance is not so different for short legs, but the off course deviation can be quite large. E.g planning from EDLW to EPWR the rhumb line goes through EDDP Delta, the great circle passes it completely.
3) Most pilots use Lambert projection charts approximating the earth's convergency for planning. So the straight lines drawn on paper will be close to great circles and it is unexpected that skydemon shows a different route.
4) Radials are great circles
5) Airways are great circles
As I find the rhumb line really a nuisance and also other pilots I know do so I suggest changing to great circles. I hope this could be implemented soon.
Peter


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