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Airspace Names


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Easy Cruising
Easy Cruising
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The TMA section numbers are definitely written on the Swiss ICAO chart. Not just for Zürich but Bern , Basel etc and military areas also. However, my experience is that the controllers may ask you to remain clear of the TMA (e.g. in class C), but usually would not bother with the TMA section number. However, sometimes pilots request crossing of TMA number X etc which probably happens because the numbers are on the chart in the first place.

To be accurate I agree that it would be good to see the TMA section number if available, to be shown as part of the title (doesnt need much extra space), but one can get along without it.  
Edited 9/22/2015 9:32:30 PM by Easy Cruising
mzajfert
mzajfert
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Hi together 
France also uses numbers for their different TMA sectors.
http://forums.skydemon.aero/uploads/images/866ff7f2-1317-440a-8672-f03d.jpg
Cheers

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Edited 10/1/2015 2:03:31 PM by mzajfert
Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
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Yes, but are they actually required?
psuter
psuter
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Tim Dawson (10/5/2015)
Yes, but are they actually required?

since i don't know exactly if this is required i asked this question to skyguide and they responded (and allowed me to post the answer here) as follows:

Very interesting question, the anwer is yes and no…

TMA sectors have numbers for two reasons, either because they have different lower limits or different activation times. If we take TMA Zurich as an example, we have sectors 1-15, of which 1-13 are active H24 and 14-15 only at specific times or NOTAM (soon HX).


If you intend to cross the TMA along the VOR’s WIL-TRA-SUL at FL95 (yellow route on the picture below), you don’t need to indicate the TMA numbers in the request. The request to cross the TMA at the stated flightlevel is completely sufficient.

If you fly this routing at 4500ft, you would only cross TMA sector 1. In this case, I (FIC Operator) might suggest, that you route from WIL direct to SUL, in order to avoid TMA sector 1. Normally, I might say something like: HB-XYZ, suggest to proceed from WIL direct to SUL to avoid TMA sector 1, otherwise the maximum in 25 miles is 3000ft. Mentioning TMA sector 1 is probably less complicated than describing it as “the TMA sector 25 miles ahead of you with a lower limit of 3000ft”, always assuming that the chart on board is depicting those numbers…

Another example, you just departed Zurich and are on course from S towards the southeast (green route on the picture below). If you tell me you want to climb to 7500ft but you will remain below the TMA, I might tell you, that TMA sector 14 is not active, so you can continue to climb earlier. The sector number then clearly indicates to you, which part of the TMA is not active.

 

So, if you give us a routing and an altitude, you do not need to indicate the numbers, we are well aware of them, but we might use the numbers to provide useful information to you.

I hope you find this answer useful, otherwise, keep asking! Feel free to post the answer in the forum. When I am not behind the radar screen, my copilots name is also skydemon ;-)


so i guess the bottom line is, no, it is not really required, but it aids greatly in communicating efficiently and clearly with air traffic controllers. that's why i think it would be worth integrating it into skydemon since skydemon is already very good in providing all the necessary information at the right time, and it would fit perfectly into that philosophy to also display such nubmers in order to further assist ATC  and Pilots in communicating efficiently. i really hope you can consider this to be in one of your future chart updates, at least in the title of the tma's, that would already be a huge help from where it is right now.

kind regards
Pascal


Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
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If we did do this, it would only be for countries where it is actually required/useful. My question above was really related to the French example, because I'm almost positive the numbers are an administrative thing and not actually used operationally for clearances.
psuter
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i am sorry to bother again with this topic.. i have just a recent new example that should be proof enought that these tma numbers are important to know in the swiss airspace.

Zurich has changed hours of service for their TMA 14 and 15, which are in the very south of the zurich tma. the notam message states "TMA ZURICH SECT 14 AND 15 ACT AND HR OF SER MODIFIED" which has no meaning at all if one is not aware of the tma numbers.  here is a screenhsot of the notam message shown in skydemon where it is impossible to find out which tma sectors this message relates to.
http://forums.skydemon.aero/uploads/images/9b590650-755d-47c6-8d04-aa8d.jpg

so once again, i think that the simplest solution for all this would be to simply append the tma number to the tma name as it is displayed on skydemon today. for example change the name of the different tma's around zurich from a uniform "Zurich TMA" which is used for any tma around zurich in skydemon to "Zurich TMA 15", "Zurich TMA 14" etc.

this would make both this Notam and also instructions and requests from and to Air trafic controllers alot simlper.

Mike@EDTG
Mike@EDTG
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Sorry to bring this up again, but I would like to ask whether it is planed to integrate the swiss TMA sector numbers in the near future. FIS is using these TMA designators regularly in radio communication - they are depicted in the official ICAO chart, so SD should depict them as well.

Additionally all sectors of airports like Emmen, Buochs, Meiringen,Sion are marked by blue dots containing sector numbers as well -  recently I received a transition clearance about like this  "D-EXYZ cleared for south north transition sector 3 - FL 115" & suddenly I found myself fishing for the Swiss ICAO Whistling




thx & keep up your excellent work Laugh

-mike

Edited 5/27/2016 9:07:02 AM by Mike@EDTG
Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
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I will ask my colleague whether it is practical for us to do this for our Swiss chart before the next AIRAC cycle.
GO

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