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Alf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 22,
Visits: 20
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+x+x+xUnfortunately uAvionix has discontinued the announced support for Mode C/S targets. Please see the attached Mail.
Very disappointing. I have a TRX-1500 which receives the exact 3D-position of FLARM® and ADS-B Traffic as well as distance and relative altitude of Mode-S transponders and presents the latter very helpfully. I thought Mode C and Mode S were quite distinct so I am not then sure why it is that uAvionix bundles them together as an insurmountable issue? Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that ADS-B is now compulsory in the USA and Europe isn't worth the effort? I sit on the flight path into an airport in Europe. I am running the uAvionix box alongside the TRX-1500. An overview of traffic into the airport daily (aircraft type and number of ins/outs):
Embraer 195 8 ATR 42/72 30 Dornier 16* Bombardier Q400 24 Other commercial 20 G.A. lots
Only the Dorniers are picked up by uAVionix and about 10% of GA as they are more modern and have ADS-B out. That's a LOT of 'invisible' traffic. Quoting that nothing can replace mark 1 eye-ball raises three questions for me:
1 Has the quotee ever flown busy airspace looking for an airfield that is unfamiliar to them. How many eyes is the pilot supposed to have? Personally I only have 2. 2. IMC? 3. How often is a pilot unable to spot traffic even when told where it is until it is very close? Obviously this item is of very limited value until ADS-B becomes mandatory in the UK. Personally I hope that is soon for all of our safety. 1. SkyEcho has been developed specifically for the European market;
2. Simply put, Mode C and Mode S both report altitude. The only difference is that Mode S additionally reports the aircraft registration;
3. ADS-B is NOT mandatory in the USA until 1 January 2020, and then only for certain types of airspace (for now);
4. ADS-B will be mandatory in Europe from 7 June 2020, but only for aircraft that weigh more than 5,700kg OR have a maximum cruise speed greater than 250kts. I'm sure that it will eventually become mandatory for all aircraft as aviation moves away from radar based surveillance to position based surveillance.
If I am in error in respect of any of the above points, I stand to be corrected. Hi all,
that is correct according to my information, thanks!
Just a question, as I am quite confused regarding the Mode C/S discussion (bearingless targets in SD) and the latest reply of Uavionix. According to the actual datasheet on the Uavionix support page, Revision F of the firmware removes the Mode C/S functionality. I still see firmware version 2.13 (WIFI) and 2.6.6 (Transceiver), both dated 02/08/2019 on their homepage, which seems to be an older firmware according to the datasheet. With this firmware installed on my SkyEcho 2, I see bearingless Mode C/S aircraft at the moment. Am I correct, if I stop upgrades in future and remain on this FW, will I keep the "bearingless target" functionality or will SkyDemon remove this in future SD updates?
If I am correct, I would vote for keeping this functionality, as I am quite happy with it in my vintage aircraft with no further electronic instruments installed. Even not perfect, it is a big step ahead in regards of a safer operation.
Many thanks, Alf
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Sky Painter
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 626,
Visits: 15K
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+x+xUnfortunately uAvionix has discontinued the announced support for Mode C/S targets. Please see the attached Mail.
Very disappointing. I have a TRX-1500 which receives the exact 3D-position of FLARM® and ADS-B Traffic as well as distance and relative altitude of Mode-S transponders and presents the latter very helpfully. I thought Mode C and Mode S were quite distinct so I am not then sure why it is that uAvionix bundles them together as an insurmountable issue? Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that ADS-B is now compulsory in the USA and Europe isn't worth the effort? I sit on the flight path into an airport in Europe. I am running the uAvionix box alongside the TRX-1500. An overview of traffic into the airport daily (aircraft type and number of ins/outs):
Embraer 195 8 ATR 42/72 30 Dornier 16* Bombardier Q400 24 Other commercial 20 G.A. lots
Only the Dorniers are picked up by uAVionix and about 10% of GA as they are more modern and have ADS-B out. That's a LOT of 'invisible' traffic. Quoting that nothing can replace mark 1 eye-ball raises three questions for me:
1 Has the quotee ever flown busy airspace looking for an airfield that is unfamiliar to them. How many eyes is the pilot supposed to have? Personally I only have 2. 2. IMC? 3. How often is a pilot unable to spot traffic even when told where it is until it is very close? Obviously this item is of very limited value until ADS-B becomes mandatory in the UK. Personally I hope that is soon for all of our safety. 1. SkyEcho has been developed specifically for the European market;
2. Simply put, Mode C and Mode S both report altitude. The only difference is that Mode S additionally reports the aircraft registration;
3. ADS-B is NOT mandatory in the USA until 1 January 2020, and then only for certain types of airspace (for now);
4. ADS-B will be mandatory in Europe from 7 June 2020, but only for aircraft that weigh more than 5,700kg OR have a maximum cruise speed greater than 250kts. I'm sure that it will eventually become mandatory for all aircraft as aviation moves away from radar based surveillance to position based surveillance.
If I am in error in respect of any of the above points, I stand to be corrected.
Mike _________________________________________ Samsung Galaxy Tab A8 – Android 11.0 & SD 4.0.2.0 Huawei P30 – Android 11.0 & SD 4.0.2.0
PC – Windows 10 (Home Ed) Version 2009, Build 19045.5917, SD 4.0.2.0
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Paul Guilbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8,
Visits: 6
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+xUnfortunately uAvionix has discontinued the announced support for Mode C/S targets. Please see the attached Mail.
Very disappointing. I have a TRX-1500 which receives the exact 3D-position of FLARM® and ADS-B Traffic as well as distance and relative altitude of Mode-S transponders and presents the latter very helpfully. I thought Mode C and Mode S were quite distinct so I am not then sure why it is that uAvionix bundles them together as an insurmountable issue? Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that ADS-B is now compulsory in the USA and Europe isn't worth the effort? I sit on the flight path into an airport in Europe. I am running the uAvionix box alongside the TRX-1500. An overview of traffic into the airport daily (aircraft type and number of ins/outs):
Embraer 195 8 ATR 42/72 30 Dornier 16* Bombardier Q400 24 Other commercial 20 G.A. lots
Only the Dorniers are picked up by uAVionix and about 10% of GA as they are more modern and have ADS-B out. That's a LOT of 'invisible' traffic. Quoting that nothing can replace mark 1 eye-ball raises three questions for me:
1 Has the quotee ever flown busy airspace looking for an airfield that is unfamiliar to them. How many eyes is the pilot supposed to have? Personally I only have 2. 2. IMC? 3. How often is a pilot unable to spot traffic even when told where it is until it is very close? Obviously this item is of very limited value until ADS-B becomes mandatory in the UK. Personally I hope that is soon for all of our safety.
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Daniel Sinn
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 13
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Unfortunately uAvionix has discontinued the announced support for Mode C/S targets. Please see the attached Mail.
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Paul Guilbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8,
Visits: 6
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+xCibble10, The problem is that SE doesn't provide meaningful information from bearingless targets, unlike the output from PilotAware and FLARM.
This is a recent post from Tim (on another forum) regarding SE and bearingless targets:
"Bearingless targets are a feature provided by Flarm and PilotAware. Those devices pass us the aircraft id, altitude, vertical speed, estimated range (guesswork but based on signal strength; the user can learn to interpret the ring size changes over time) and even callsign.
SkyEcho doesn’t have anything like that. Its only offering is to send us the altitude of a mode C/S return as it comes in. No vertical speed, no range (estimated or otherwise), or even an aircraft id. I declined that offering."
Tony
Thanks Tony, I have now picked up on the point that it is a Sky Echo output issue. Very disappointing as the Sky Echo 2 only provides for ADS-B traffic on SD (and FLARM if you pay extra for it). Unless someone needs the transponder element then it seems to me to pretty pointless if you already have an ADS-B/FLARM solution in the cockpit. A pity given that it is nicer to have traffic on the larger ipad screen with SD running than on the panel mounted Garmin 650 as i do.
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Tony N
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 349,
Visits: 2.5K
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Cibble10, The problem is that SE doesn't provide meaningful information from bearingless targets, unlike the output from PilotAware and FLARM.
This is a recent post from Tim (on another forum) regarding SE and bearingless targets:
"Bearingless targets are a feature provided by Flarm and PilotAware. Those devices pass us the aircraft id, altitude, vertical speed, estimated range (guesswork but based on signal strength; the user can learn to interpret the ring size changes over time) and even callsign.
SkyEcho doesn’t have anything like that. Its only offering is to send us the altitude of a mode C/S return as it comes in. No vertical speed, no range (estimated or otherwise), or even an aircraft id. I declined that offering."
Tony
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AerialRob
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15,
Visits: 7
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+x+xI had the Sky Echo 2 in use the first time at the 1st May for 3 flights. At the first flight (1:15h) it worked great, perfect GPS position accuracy and showed me ADS-B traffic. On the second flight (0:30h) the GPS connection of the SkyEcho 2 couldn't be established, so I flew with the iPad's GPS and without any traffic information. On the third flight home (1:20h) again, the GPS connection of the SkyEcho2 was not working, so I began the flight with the iPad's GPS and tried to restart the SkyEcho2 several times inflight. after 30min the SkyEcho2 GPS connection began to work and so I switched in SD to fly with the SkyEcho, which then worked great on the GPS side and also on the traffic side.
I already wrote the uAvionix support regarding the GPS failures, but I am still waiting for an answer. This day with the SkyEcho 2 was very disappointing for me, but WHEN it worked, it worked great! Even the Callsign is shown in SD.
In the moments, in which the SkyEcho2 GPS was not working, the GPS connection of the iPad was fine the whole time! I have purchased the Sky Echo 2 in the last few weeks. It seems pretty robust so far however I am very disappointed that whereas it picks up ADS-B and displays that within SD the Sky Echo 2 unit is also able to receive Mode C/S but SD does not do anything with the latter. There is significantly more none ADS-B out there and I hoped for more information on SD. I understand the limited information from Mode C/S transponders but wish for some form of warning, however incomplete it maybe. We all know that seeing another aircraft is challenging even when you know where it should be! Sky Echo 2 is of very limited value if used with SD. A pity, as I love SD!!
I understand from the instruction manual that the feature you require is available but you have to select this in SkyDemon. See bearingless targets page 86.
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Paul Guilbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8,
Visits: 6
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+xI had the Sky Echo 2 in use the first time at the 1st May for 3 flights. At the first flight (1:15h) it worked great, perfect GPS position accuracy and showed me ADS-B traffic. On the second flight (0:30h) the GPS connection of the SkyEcho 2 couldn't be established, so I flew with the iPad's GPS and without any traffic information. On the third flight home (1:20h) again, the GPS connection of the SkyEcho2 was not working, so I began the flight with the iPad's GPS and tried to restart the SkyEcho2 several times inflight. after 30min the SkyEcho2 GPS connection began to work and so I switched in SD to fly with the SkyEcho, which then worked great on the GPS side and also on the traffic side.
I already wrote the uAvionix support regarding the GPS failures, but I am still waiting for an answer. This day with the SkyEcho 2 was very disappointing for me, but WHEN it worked, it worked great! Even the Callsign is shown in SD.
In the moments, in which the SkyEcho2 GPS was not working, the GPS connection of the iPad was fine the whole time! I have purchased the Sky Echo 2 in the last few weeks. It seems pretty robust so far however I am very disappointed that whereas it picks up ADS-B and displays that within SD the Sky Echo 2 unit is also able to receive Mode C/S but SD does not do anything with the latter. There is significantly more none ADS-B out there and I hoped for more information on SD. I understand the limited information from Mode C/S transponders but wish for some form of warning, however incomplete it maybe. We all know that seeing another aircraft is challenging even when you know where it should be! Sky Echo 2 is of very limited value if used with SD. A pity, as I love SD!!
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Daniel Sinn
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 13
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I had the Sky Echo 2 in use the first time at the 1st May for 3 flights. At the first flight (1:15h) it worked great, perfect GPS position accuracy and showed me ADS-B traffic. On the second flight (0:30h) the GPS connection of the SkyEcho 2 couldn't be established, so I flew with the iPad's GPS and without any traffic information. On the third flight home (1:20h) again, the GPS connection of the SkyEcho2 was not working, so I began the flight with the iPad's GPS and tried to restart the SkyEcho2 several times inflight. after 30min the SkyEcho2 GPS connection began to work and so I switched in SD to fly with the SkyEcho, which then worked great on the GPS side and also on the traffic side.
I already wrote the uAvionix support regarding the GPS failures, but I am still waiting for an answer. This day with the SkyEcho 2 was very disappointing for me, but WHEN it worked, it worked great! Even the Callsign is shown in SD.
In the moments, in which the SkyEcho2 GPS was not working, the GPS connection of the iPad was fine the whole time!
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trettum
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12,
Visits: 1
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I suggest you take a look on this thread.
Seems that it works great. However mode C/S detection is not currently supported in SkyDemon.
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