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„International“ Temporary Restricted Areas (in Europe) shown incorrectly / misleading.


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Jan von Hassel
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Several times I had the experience, that temporary RAs (e.g. for military exercises) that were announced by (national) NOTAMs giving a huge circle around a specific location were also shown in neighbour countries, where they are clearly not valid. For example a Czech TRA for sure has no relevance in German or Polish airspace, as the authorities of one country do not have legal competence in another country. Such false map-markings in the not affected country are misleading and confusing. If there really are multi-national TRAs (which may rarely be the case), then the respective national parts of it would be published in each nation‘s own NOTAMs, adding up like a puzzle.
Therefore I highly recommend to create an algorithm, that the highlighted TRA on the map ALWAYS ends at the borders of the respective country which issued this specific TRA - even if the original NOTAM specifies a huge circle that reaches beyond this countries borders.
People said: the marking on the map is as unprecise, as the NOTAM itself may be. That‘s not a valid argument: The NOTAM legally assumes, that its validity ends at the borders, therefore they should be read and interpreted accordingly. So should SkyDemon do.
Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
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Welcome to the NOTAM system. It isn't fit for purpose. Having said that, in some circumstances we do clip to the originating country's FIR borders, albeit there is a computational cost in doing so. If you could highlight any specific bad instances, that would be helpful.
Jan von Hassel
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I did not make screenshots. But why is this not always clipped? What can be the reason to not clip it? It is always wrong and always misleading and confusing…!
grahamb
grahamb
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Surely it’s not confusing when you see that the centre of the circle is in another FIR, and you are aware that this happens.?
Jan von Hassel
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I hope this statement is not from a SD official.
1. Wrong displaying is wrong displaying.
2. Every information provided in aviation should be reliable and not subject to calculated errors.
3. Any sort of confusion causes risk in aviation and should therefore be avoided as possible.
4. Is a solution to this that complex that it goes beyond SDs capabilities? Then ciao ->ForeFlight.
5. Is that the service standard of SD? Again -> ForeFlight.
Adam Erchegyi
Adam Erchegyi
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Jan von Hassel - 6/26/2024 6:05:18 PM
I hope this statement is not from a SD official.1. Wrong displaying is wrong displaying. 2. Every information provided in aviation should be reliable and not subject to calculated errors. 3. Any sort of confusion causes risk in aviation and should therefore be avoided as possible. 4. Is a solution to this that complex that it goes beyond SDs capabilities? Then ciao ->ForeFlight.5. Is that the service standard of SD? Again -> ForeFlight.

Thanks for joining the forum today. Will be very sad to see you go. 🤦

Jan von Hassel
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Very qualified answer for an aviation IT expert, Mr. Erchegyi. Is that the current usability and safety approach in Lufthansa culture? Is this your usual approach to discussions about possible deficits in human-machine interaction?
grahamb
grahamb
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Jan von Hassel - 6/26/2024 6:05:18 PM
I hope this statement is not from a SD official. 

No, not an official, just a happy user. 

Your idea has merit, but I wouldn't want its implementation to compromise performance for people using older, less powerful devices.


Jan von Hassel
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Ok - but I do not see how correcting a dataset at the provider could in any way affect end user devices performance. All the relevant corrections should be made in SD‘s internal database. So the users only see a map with (correct) markings.
Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
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It sounds like from your posts above like you're fortunate enough to have never been exposed to the raw data that companies like us have to deal with. As I mentioned before, if you wait until you've got a specific example, we can look into it and comment.
GO

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