Important: These forums are for discussions between SkyDemon users. They are not routinely monitored by SkyDemon staff so any urgent issues should be sent directly to our Customer Support.

Mode S Returns From PilotAware


Author
Message
brinzlee
brinzlee
Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 31, Visits: 108
As the PilotAware project has resurfaced and lots of units are in circulation now, would it be possible to address at some point the way Mode S returns are portrayed on SkyDemon by way of a suggestion rather than bearingless targets appear as a cluttered mess over my aircraft, a table in one of the corners with all direct traffic appearing in a series of colours according to signal level received. Rather like the way EasyVFR do it.......I don't like their software but I do like the way traffic is represented.
Thanks
Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8K, Visits: 8.9K
We are not responsible for the way PilotAware Mode S targets are displayed on SkyDemon. There is a "correct" way to do this according to the Flarm protocol PilotAware are using, but they have chosen to instead piggyback a fictional aircraft on top of your own. I understand this can be a mess. PilotAware is still in its infancy and we are not currently able to make changes to our core traffic awareness code to accommodate their proprietary changes until things have settled down a bit.
Edited 6/14/2016 3:09:06 PM by Tim Dawson
AerialRob
AerialRob
Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)Too Much Forum (781 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15, Visits: 7
Looking forward to that time then when hopefully  SkyDemon could also include a sound  alert drawing your attention to Mode S traffic.
Used the PilotAware device together with SkyDemon today and it compliments your excellent product.



brinzlee
brinzlee
Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 31, Visits: 108
Just resurrecting this post again. Lee Moore from PilotAware has now followed the flarm protocol for bearingless targets and this is now represented by the red, amber and green circles around your aircraft in SkyDemon (Much better in my opinion)...the only slight problem is the depiction of altitude above or below your aircraft is presented at the top of the coloured circle and is very difficult to read. Apparently he can't adjust this font size. Is there anything that can be adjusted within SkyDemon to make this text a little larger or is this a programming implementation.
There are other users within the PilotAware forum community that would like this bigger too.
Kind regards 
Brinsley
Peter Robertson
Peter Robertson
Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.5K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 48, Visits: 140
brinzlee - 7/28/2016 4:54:39 PM
Just resurrecting this post again. Lee Moore from PilotAware has now followed the flarm protocol for bearingless targets and this is now represented by the red, amber and green circles around your aircraft in SkyDemon (Much better in my opinion)...the only slight problem is the depiction of altitude above or below your aircraft is presented at the top of the coloured circle and is very difficult to read. Apparently he can't adjust this font size. Is there anything that can be adjusted within SkyDemon to make this text a little larger or is this a programming implementation.
There are other users within the PilotAware forum community that would like this bigger too.
Kind regards 
Brinsley

Tim,

I just want to echo the spirit and detail of Brinzlee's post.

Since early this year, I have been heavily involved in the development and testing of PilotAware's Mode S detection and am pretty much responsible for the range of Mode S alert triggers now incorporated, though not for the way this data is presented to the various Nav Systems. As you know, Lee initially presented 'bearingless' targets to Sky Demon as a small colour-changing aircraft which appeared on top of your own rather than using the standard FLARM circles. This was a deliberate attempt to address a worry held by the team that these circles can give a false impression that the area within the circle is a 'safe zone',when due to the vagaries of Mode S detection, this is clearly not the case.

I was quite happy with this decision, as were other early development testers, and the system worked well in practice with early test versions, with the colour changes quickly and automatically indicating increasing risk if the threat continued to rise. As other aspects of the system developed, however, it became apparent that this 'non-standard' bearingless target presentation caused conflict within SkyDemon, resulting in loss of the colour changes. When PilotAware Mode S was officially released to the public, we also became aware that the now 'simple white aircraft' - similar to those used for ADSB and P3i were causing confusion to new PilotAware users, as many misinterpreted the piggybacked Mode S aircraft as a threat suddenly appearing right on top of them, to their obvious consternation.

To address these issues, Lee has reverted to the standard FLARM protocol for bearingless targets, which we are now all getting used to. Unfortunately, however, I and many others find the relative altitude information - which is essential to direct the pilot's scan in the right general direction to find and avoid the 'bearingless' threat or help decide whether to climb or descend to maintain / increase separation - is far too small to find and read quickly against the moving map background - especially in an open cockpit, leading to time wasted peering inwards when the pilot needs to be looking OUTSIDE for the approaching danger. OK I know nothing is simple, but a relatively minor increase in text size and or the provision of a clearly contrasting background would address this issue and be an improvement for all your system users - not merely those using PilotAware.

Please consider this request in the spirit in which it has been made, namely to help improve all our safety.

Best Regards

Peter Robertson
Edited 7/29/2016 8:36:43 AM by Exfirepro
Tim Dawson
Tim Dawson
SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)SkyDemon Team (643K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8K, Visits: 8.9K
Yes, I reckon we can probably do something about this. To refresh my memory, would you be able to provide two screenshots of the SkyDemon display from PilotAware with your personal configuration, the first being the display of a normal target and the second being the display of a bearingless one? I want to compare the font sizes and think about how we might improve the display of bearingless target.

I'm pleased to hear about the switch to the standard display of bearingless targets. One should not ignore the success of Flarm, with tens of thousands of units in circulation, who (for all their faults) have honed this protocol pretty well over the years. I do agree with you that the rings should not really be interpreted as "range" rings, but they do have their purpose as the pilot can see them increasing/decreasing.

In the meantime I will have a think about display improvement.

Edited 7/29/2016 9:13:06 AM by Tim Dawson
Pete
Pete
Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)Too Much Forum (14K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 128, Visits: 959

flexwingflier
flexwingflier
Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)Too Much Forum (301 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3, Visits: 187
I have been a user of SD for several years now and also a user of Pilotaware.
I have seen on several occasions the " Rings" denoting a bearingless target but havent even noticed the relative height text,this displayed OK in the previous PAW software when aircraft were piggy backed.
An improvement in the display of this important information would be great.
Thanks Brian

leemoore1966
leemoore1966
Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)Too Much Forum (1.9K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 24, Visits: 46
Hi Tim

One thing I would add here as well, the syntax for <ID> in the PFLAA message which you enhanced so that it could take
'ICAO!<text>', for example
012345!G-ABCD

I am pretty sure this does not work for bearingless targets, I need to recheck what happens, but it certainly does not display

Thx
Lee

brinzlee
brinzlee
Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)Too Much Forum (4K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 31, Visits: 108

GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Reading This Topic

Login

Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search